October 05, 2005
WEB2.0 - Open Source Infrastructure
I've been here for an hour and I've heard these three words just shy of 9 gazillion times. Which is a good thing really. Mostly the talk has been about the upcoming workshop of the same name which seems to be the 9:45 option of choice, I know I'm headed there in a minute. Line up is...
Marc Canter, CEO, Broadband Mechanics
Tantek Çelik, Chief Technologist, Technorati
Brian Dear, Founder and CEO, EVDB, Inc.
Matt Mullenweg, CNET Networks
Toni Schneider, VP Yahoo! Developer Network, Yahoo!
TONS of notes in the extended entry
This panel is in one of the smaller rooms and it's packed full. Isles are filled with people sitting on the floor.
Cantor- web2 is built on a new platform, web based not hardware based. But that's just switching from Mac or PC to Amazon or Yahoo. So, shouldn't we insisting these companies that we're relying on have an open infra so we're not reliant on something.
Brian Dear EVDB - eventful.com -
high definition events vs. low definition events.
High has lots of information is easily discoverable highly structured and harder to create.
Low is something you'd put on your fridge - time, date, place.
would be good to push things more in the High direction.
how to use iCal, Atom, RSS to further this?
Looking to Blogs for direction, what has worked for blogs? How can that teach others? Pings might be the answer and eventful has created a ping server just for events to see if that works.
Cantor is actually calling people out in the audience to ask if they would support this kind of system.
Matt - word press / pingomatic. - so you send one fast ping that distributes to everyone else which is much faster than pinging every service on it's own. System is relatively easy to abuse so that's the big thing to help. Technorati and others have been helpful in providing server space to keep this running. Something that really only has value is it's free and open to everyone.
Marc asks if it's a non-profit which Matt says no, they are working on it but it's pretty hard to do. Marc says someone should set up an umbrella organization so that guys like us don't have to fuck with that kind of thing, , then apologizes for saying fuck because he's "from the street" - common Marc - embrace the Fuck!
Matt - one problem is the Spec because everyone has to agree on the order of things. So there's talk of an RSS ping version, an Atom ping version, etc...
*wifi is dropping left and right at this point*
Tony Schnider of Yahoo! - developer network - open APIs for everyone to use. List of tools recently acquired. Opening all the pieces to let people do these kinds of things. (Recent Yahoo! News debacle aside this is a very good thing and the juice that will be fueling some interesting things in the future)
Marc wants to know at what point would Yahoo! work with someone else rather than just buying them and bringing them into the Yahoo! fold. Tony says RSS and Yahoo! Maps using GeoRSS are the format examples of that. So perhaps with formats they are happy to use outside formats, but when it comes to something that is being run by someone with servers etc they will then try to buy it. Marc points out that this is a dangerous balance to try and sit on and it's good that they are trying. Yahoo commits to supporting Brian's open events format.
Tantek / Technorati. Asks and finds that 3-4 people in the room have actually not heard of pings. In this new world you control you own data. Mix and Match data, APIs, Services, etc.. so all the data formats and protocols need to be open. Sweating the details is important to make sure it's truly open. Royalty free. Needs to be publicly accessible on the web or it's not truly open. Should be highly interoperable. 3500 Internet RFCs with about 2 being accepted is a good example of something that isn't useful. Needs to be Web Friendly. For real. Has to work with existing tools.
Microformats need to solve a specific problem. trying something simple is an easy way to see if something works or not and the market will tell you what to fix. Humans first, machines second. Presentable AND parsable. Try to reuse as much as possible from standards that are already accepted.
be open from the start. Question emperors without clothing. Invalid experts should be dismissed.
hReview - there's tons of reviews on the web and no open standard that is used by them. Lots of research as to what people were already doing lead to the formats and people are helping out. As people support, more people jump on. Goodpick.com is a mashup of hReview and amazon. will give you the HTML for a blog post using hReview.
Broadband Mechanics is teaming up with PubSub to support Structured Data.
two examples of converting web page date to microformats (see text link at top): http://tantek.com/microformats/2005/web2/program.html
Posted by sean on October 5, 2005 09:28 AM | View blog reactions
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BTW, my slides from the workshop are also available online: http://tantek.com/presentations/2005/10/microformats-examples/
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Posted by: Tantek
on October 5, 2005 03:31 PM