October 28, 2006
Washington Post totally rips off BoingBoing
Hello new readers - This story is several days old and a lot of info has come to light since it was originally posted. Please read ALL of the updates and ALL of the comments before posting any new comments to this thread, especially if your comments are criticizing any of the folks involved with this on any level. I'm sick of reading comments and blog posts from people demanding something be done that actually happened several days ago.
Go read this post by Xeni Jardin on BoingBoing (which went up Friday), and now go read this story on the Washington Post by Brian Krebs (that went up Saturday). Look familiar? Notice anything missing from the WaPo story? Like, any mention that they took the whole idea directly from BoingBoing? More from Violet.
UPDATE: I pointed out this in the comment thread on the WaPo site and shortly there after. Unfortunately his comment brings up more questions than it answers. Here's Krebs' comment:
Sean,
I'll admit I parachuted in on this story when a mutual friend of Mr. Soghoian's pinged me at 6:50 p.m. last night to tell me what was going down, but "plagiarize?" I don't think so.
I spent several hours tracking down FBI field agents, Mr. Soghoian himself, and gathering data from his blog and from other news outlets, no fewer than three of which I cite in the blog. That said, anything taken from those articles was put in double quotes and called out. The main reason I posted my story when I did was that no one who'd covered it had managed to speak with him around the time of the FBI visit and confirm that.
I saw the BoingBoing piece like everyone else, but I never read past the first paragraph. Frankly, I was more interested in the graphic they ran on the top of that post, as even though I'd mirrored Soghoian's site before he took the form down, the PHP back-end code was not mirrored and I was unable to reproduce the boarding pass I'd generated from Chris's site just prior to my calling him for the first time.
I had no idea that BB broke the story: had I been aware of it at the time, I'd have sourced them as the origin.
I am very careful to cite other blogs and writers when I am using or referring to their work. You, too, should be more careful before accusing reporters of such serious charges. Is there a particular paragraph or phrase or quote you'd like to call attention to?
Thanks for reading.
I responded there but I'll point out the same thing here and more. First off this makes no sense at all, Krebs is a reporter who when tipped off about this story he begins actively looking for info and comes across BoingBoing and never reads past the first paragraph? Does anyone believe that for a second? What kind of a reporter wouldn't read past the first paragraph of an article they came across covering a story they are looking up? But since he asked for similarities I thought I'd point out an obvious one that isn't in the first paragraph:
| BoingBoing: |
Washington Post: |
| "FBI special agent Wendy Osborne declined to confirm whether
Soghoian had been visited or if an investigation was taking place, citing
FBI policy, but said "We will confirm that he has not been arrested."" |
"Wendy Osborne, a special agent with the FBI's Indianapolis field
office, declined to discuss the matter, but said Soghoian was not arrested." |
Also, as Metroblogging DC notes there is noticeable mix up in the timing of this issue. According to Soghoian's own blog he was visited by the FBI twice, once at 3:45 PM and once after 2 AM when he wasn't there. The BoingBoing story also says 3:45. Yet Krebs claims to have not heard about the story until 6:30 PM and then says he was on the phone with Soghoian when the FBI showed up at his house.
UPDATE 2: Krebs has now posted comments on the WaPo as well as on this post admitting that both BoingBoing broke the story and that he didn't credit them for it. He claims he didn't realize at the time that they broke the story which is an easy out as it's his word against everyone else's at this point. Personally I don't believe for a second that he only read the first paragraph of the BoingBoing post as he claims, either that or he's the laziest journalist I've come across all week. I mean really, what kind of a reporter is following a story, finds an article already written about it and doesn't read that article? BoingBoing's piece went up Friday afternoon, Krebs' went up Saturday afternoon and he didn't get any info from them at all? I guess anything is possible but this is really had to believe. Saying he read the BB piece only for the Graphics is akin to saying you read Hustler only for the articles. But more importantly - Why does any of this matter? It matters because people still assume blogs aren't covering real issues. It matters because this is a perfect example of bloggers doing serious work, breaking stories and reporting on things that major media hasn't even picked up on and other people piggy backing on that and taking all the credit. It matters because BoingBoing is not indexed by Google News, the WaPo is. With no mention of BB in the WaPo story Krebs gets all the credit and all the links. It matters because Google's reason for not indexing BoingBoing is that they only cover stories other people are talking about. It matters because when bloggers make mistakes they actively work to correct them, yet when a reporter for the Washington Post neglects to mention who did the work to actually break a story he thinks all he has to do is leave a comment saying "A thousand pardons. "
CONTINUING UPDATES: Quinn Norton has written a timeline of events which shows that several journalists (including Xeni Jardin and Bryan Krebs) were working on the story at the same time. This is entirely possible and while I'm sticking by my accusation that Krebs borrowed, or rather "was inspired by" Xeni's post, I never am no longer questioning what work he did or didn't do on his own. It's entirely possible he called the people he said he did, and did plenty of his own legwork. As I stated in the comments on Ryan Singel's blog and as I noted above my major issue has become that Krebs admits he saw the BoingBoing post which was published a day before his, yet that he didn't read it. He's a reporter, working on story, and finds an article about this story on arguably one of the top blogs on the internet and doesn't bother to read it? I don't believe that for a second. Krebs could simply add a credit to BoingBoing (The way Xeni has done at the bottom of this post) and this issue would go away, his denial that he read Xeni's post and his reactions to people questioning it are only fueling the fire.
FINAL UPDATE: Violet Blue, who was the first person to publicly point out the similarities between the WaPo and BoingBoing pieces has a follow up post here. At this point I've corrected my initial accusations on so many blogs I've lost count, yet the issue of the WaPo not linking or mentioning BoingBoing is just as valid as ever. I've been in constant contact with people from all sides of this argument since before I ever said anything and at this point everyone involved considers the discussion over and there is nothing else to say on the subject.
Posted by sean on October 28, 2006 07:16 PM | View blog reactions
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This is a joke, right? "Took the whole thing" from boing boing? Sorry, but I don't see it, and I've read both.
Posted by: tokyo joe on October 29, 2006 01:41 AM
Sean,
Accusing reporters of lifting entire stories is a very serious charge, one that you seem to make almost flippantly. You really should be more careful before you lob such baseless (and frankly libelous) accusations against others. If you truly feel I've lifted material from the BoingBoing story, then please by all means show us what you mean.
I suspect that what you are most upset about is that I neglected to credit BoingBoing for breaking the story. At the time I wrote my blog post, I had read part of BB's post but wasn't aware they'd broken it. Had I know that, I'd have given them credit. A thousand pardons.
Anyway, thanks for reading. Have a nice day.
Posted by: Brian Krebs on October 29, 2006 08:54 AM
I'd invite you to read some excellent analysis of how this story was reported, over at the personal blog of a Wired reporter who was privy to the process of just how this story was reported.
http://www.ambiguous.org/archive.php3/2006/10/29#quinn20061029.1
Posted by: Brian Krebs on October 29, 2006 03:17 PM
Sean,
I've been reporting on the boarding pass story and in short, you owe Krebs an apology.
More here:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2006/10/plagiarism_accu.html#comments
Ryan Singel
Posted by: Ryan Singel on October 29, 2006 04:01 PM
Why would a respected reporter (Krebs) steal the work of of a blogging nobody at Boing-Boing? You bangin' Xeni, Shawn?
Posted by: Joe Cypherpunk on October 29, 2006 08:26 PM
Yeah, this is why facts aren't copyrightable. There are a finite number of ways to report news- why in the world would you think that one source should have some sort of temporary monopoly over the phrase "special agent" and the idea of a guy not being arrested?
Posted by: what on October 30, 2006 09:11 AM
Sean, nice sleuthwork, but your rambling, falsely accusatory post is an example of why bloggers aren't given the same respect as major media outlets, despite the fact that bloggers do often break stories.
I would suspect that your friends over at BoingBoing are probably pretty embarrassed by your libelous attack on Brian and would probably like to distance themselves from any future defenses you may take up on their behalf.
Posted by: Dave Suthibut on October 30, 2006 10:41 AM
"I'm sticking by my accusation that Krebs borrowed, or rather 'was inspired by' Xeni's post, I never questions what work he did or didn't do on his own."
Don't backpedal now. Your post on WaPo was "Way to plagerize there bub."[sic]
People who actually know what plagiarism is think you look pretty stupid right about now.
Posted by: Ridiculous. on October 30, 2006 12:05 PM
I've said everything that needs to be said, on several websites at this point including noting that Krebs did the work he says he did as well as my continued skepticism to his claims that he didn't read the BB post. I've been in constant discussion with several people on all sides of this discussion since before I ever said anything publicly and everyone involved that I've been talking to feels the points that need to be made have been and any further discussion will only make the situation more uncomfortable for everyone and there is no need for that at this point.
Posted by: sean bonner on October 31, 2006 01:30 PM
"I've said everything that needs to be said"
Except, of course, to apologise. You get something blatantly wrong, accusing someone of plagarism, and then don't apologise?
If MSM did the same thing, you'd be howling for people to lose their jobs - and rightly so. The fact that you obviously think that because you're a blogger, you can post lies and not apologise says a whole lot more about you than about Brian Krebs.
Posted by: Ian Betteridge on November 1, 2006 10:33 AM
I have to think that this is some sort of personal grudge. So what if he lifted an idea from Boing? Get off of the high horse. This feels like junior high school.
Posted by: jeff barson on November 1, 2006 10:38 AM
I would agree that this is not plagiarism. Calling it that actually detracts from the real story, which is that mainstream reporters often HATE to credit blogs. They see blogs as free sources of information! That's annoying.
Posted by: Te on November 1, 2006 11:36 AM
"the issue of the WaPo not linking or mentioning BoingBoing is just as valid as ever"
So is the issue of you lying with intent to impune someone's reputation by accusing Krebs of plagiarism in the first place. Krebs, as everyone now accepts, didn't plagiarise the story - which means you lied when you claimed he did.
Do you think that not checking your facts and lying is ok because you're a blogger, but somehow if you're MSM it isn't?
When are you going to apologise, Sean? Rewriting history by attempting to "correct" your posts about plagiarism isn't an apology.
Posted by: Ian Betteridge on November 3, 2006 08:38 AM
Ian, there is a difference between a lie and a mistake. According to Wikipedia :
"A lie is an untruthful statement made to someone else with the intention to deceive."
I would have had to have known before I said anything that Krebs did his own work in order for my statement to have been a lie. I didn't know that, and made the statement based on what I did know.
I was not trying to deceive anyone at any point in this discussion, Any statement I made was what I honestly believed, and as soon as facts disproved any of those statements I corrected them. Via comments on other posts, via e-mail, and via this post. I did not do something malicious that I now need to apologize for, I made a statement I felt was factual, had a discussion about it, and corrected the parts that were in error. That's what I'd expect anyone to do. Blogger or MSM.
Posted by: Sean Bonner on November 3, 2006 09:05 AM
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