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11/14/2002 Entry: "Sean Penn's open letter to Pres. Bush"
From what I heard Sean Penn paid $56,000 for this ad to be posted in the Washington Post. The media has paid very little attention to it, because it doesn't serve the President's agenda. Pass it to others...
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Nov. 3, 2002
An Open Letter to the President of the United States of America
Mr. Bush:
Good morning sir. Like you, I am a father and an American. Like you, I consider myself a patriot. Like you, I was horrified by the events of this past year, concerned for my family and my country. However, I do not believe in a simplistic and inflammatory view of good and evil. I believe this is a big world full of men, women, and children who struggle to eat, to love, to work, to protect their families, their beliefs, and their dreams. My father, like yours, was decorated for service in World War II. He raised me with a deep belief in Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as they should apply to all Americans who would sacrifice to maintain them and to all human beings as a matter of principle.
Many of your actions to date and those proposed seem to violate every defining principle of this country over which you preside: intolerance of debate ("with us or against us"), marginalization of your critics, the promoting of fear through unsubstantiated rhetoric, manipulation of a quick comfort media, and position of your administration's deconstruction of civil liberties all contradict the very core of the patriotism you claim. You lead, it seems, through a blood-lined sense of entitlement. Take a close look at your most vehement media supporters.
See the fear in their eyes as their loud voices of support ring out with that historically disastrous undercurrent of rage and panic masked as "straight tough talk." How far have we come from understanding what it is to kill one man, one woman, or one child, much less the "collateral damage" of many hundreds of thousands. Your use of the words, "this is a new kind of war" is often accompanied by an odd smile. It concerns me that what you are asking of us is to abandon all previous lessons of history in favor of following you blindly into the future. It worries me because with all your best intentions, an enormous economic surplus has been squandered. Your administration has virtually dismissed the most fundamental environmental concerns and therefore, by implication, one gets the message that, as you seem to be willing to sacrifice the children of the world, would you also be willing to sacrifice ours. I know this cannot be your aim so, I beg you Mr. President, listen to Gershwin, read chapters of Stegner, of Saroyan, the speeches of Martin Luther King. Remind yourself of America. Remember the Iraqi children, our children, and your own.
There can be no justification for the actions of Al Qaeda. Nor acceptance of the criminal viciousness of the tyrant, Saddam Hussein.
Yet, that bombing is answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing by killing, is a pattern that only a great country like ours can stop. However, principles cannot be recklessly or greedily abandoned in the guise of preserving them.
Avoiding war while accomplishing national security is no simple task. But you will recall that we Americans had a little missile problem down in Cuba once. Mr.Kennedy's restraint (and that of the nuclear submarine captain, Arkhipov) is to be aspired to. Weapons of mass destruction are clearly a threat to the entire world in any hands. But as Americans, we must ask ourselves, since the potential for Mr. Hussein to possess them threatens not only our country, (and in fact, his technology to launch is likely not yet at that high a level of sophistication) therefore, many in his own region would have the greatest cause for concern. Why then, is the United States, as led by your administration, in the small minority of the world nations predisposed toward a preemptive military assault on Iraq? Simply put, sir, let us re-introduce inspection teams, inhibiting offensive capability. We buy time, maintain our principles here and abroad and demand of ourselves the ingenuity to be the strongest diplomatic muscle on the planet, perhaps in the history of the planet. The answers will come. You are a man of faith, but your saber is rattling the faith of many Americans in you.
I do understand what a tremendously daunting task it must be to stand in your shoes at this moment. As a father of two young children who will live their lives in the world as it will be affected by critical choices today, I have no choice but to believe that you can ultimately stand as a great president. History has offered you such a destiny. So again, sir, I beg you, help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror. Don't destroy our children's future. We will support you. You must support us, your fellow Americans, and indeed, mankind.
Defend us from fundamentalism abroad but don't turn a blind eye to the fundamentalism of a diminished citizenry through loss of civil liberties, of dangerously heightened presidential autonomy through acts of Congress, and of this country's mistaken and pervasive belief that its "manifest destiny" is to police the world. We know that Americans are frightened and angry. However, sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in an unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate sovereign nation, may well prove itself a most temporary medicine. On the other hand, should you mine and have faith in the best of the country to support your leadership in representing a strong, thoughtful, and educated United States, you may well triumph for the long haul. Lead us there, Mr. President, and we will stand with you.
Sincerely,
Sean Penn
San Francisco, California
Replies: 319 people with an opinion
WOW .. GO SEAN U R AWESOME :)
YO BUSH GO OVER SEAN`S LETTER :p
Posted by Jane @ 12/07/2002 12:50 PM PST
Hello. It's me again.
Beginning the third world war is the most illogical, most idiotic, and, from a capitalist's standpoint, the most unprofitable idea on the face of the planet. One would agree that, in the event of launching all nuclear warheads on the earth at some point target, it would be the end of the world as we know it. And that's true, any way you look at it. So why exactly would someone who has a job because he can help provide pork money through the government, because he can lead the country for four years (maybe more), and because he has been endlessly entrusted with the safety of 280 million people want to end the world? Where's the logic behind this? Why would he intentionally (or even accidentally) destroy all mankind? For fun? :) Have we been listening to Black Sabbath and reading worthless religious predictions lately?
I also can't stand it when people don't provide evidence for facts that haven't been proven. Where are these undeniable bits and pieces of evidence that you people tell us about how harsh life for Camp X-Ray prisoners is? Where are these age old societies that secretly control the entire planet at their whim? Just where is this slave trade that only two people seem to know about? Where can I find this ever-so-secret UFO lab that autopsy the strange aliens from outer space and use their technology to further their world domination cause? And, most importantly, why are YOU the only person that knows all this? Why are you special? Did you actually SEE any of this stuff? Do you actually know about all this conspiracy? Or, did you just believe the first thing you heard from someone famous? Pick an intellectual poison.
Seriously though. I would give up this whole argument to see recordings of the Illuminati meetings. I would love to get a glimpse of the anarchist meetings that changed the word "riot" to "spreading the truth." Hell, I would give it all up just to see ANYTHING that you're stating is true. I want to see these Verichips. I want to see these smallpox vaccines (Ill even take one, thank you). I would be more than happy to unfold the "truth" about Bush's magical plot to reform the government into a monarchy (or despotism, whichever), just so he can destroy everybody that he personally hates (if you believe he can do that, then you have no idea how America works).
I've gone on too long. If you're still reading this (and NOT typing a hateful response), then please listen: We really are in a time of war, a time of fear, panic, and misunderstanding. I know that you are still trying to pull out some proof from the rubble of confusion. The thing is, you, yes YOU, know in your heart, soul, whatever, that which really is true. What it is, I can't say. I celebrate the individual, and that means I don't know what you are thinking, I only know what I am thinking. By that, I can say that whatever is said by someone you don't know, is most likely not the truth until they can prove it, and most of them never will. They, meaning the people who give you false pretenses, will show you that their way eventually benefits you, because its truth, which can be proven. But then, they expose the fact that they only want something for themself (for people today, that thing tends to be fame or the ability to be recognized), and you're not included anywhere. Sometimes, he/she just used you to get to that something. If you need an example, say something.
My point is this: you know you're right, until you can prove it wrong. Don't go believing someone that promises something extraordinary, simply because they're chrismatic, or type in big bold lettering. Search for the truth yourself, only then will you know that it is really true or not. If you're religious, good for you. Believe what you know, and you'll be fine.
Okay, enough of that. I'll type back later.
Posted by DeadSky @ 12/02/2002 11:57 PM PST
i mean 3rd world war below :) my bad
Posted by Anon @ 11/28/2002 02:10 PM PST
Ok. Some people are really stupid. Our stupid president is TRYING to start the 4th world war. If a world war DOES HAPPEN to start, itll be the end of the world. Every country has nuclear weapons, it'll be a massive slaughter of all people. It seems like thats what bush wants. He isnt just bringing America down, hes bringing the whole world with him
Posted by Anon @ 11/28/2002 02:06 PM PST
America is doing something about the WAR against our country so that must make Bush bad. I guess you people would just sit on the couch and whine while lunatics slaughter your family?
Posted by Sick of you whiny, would be intellectuals @ 11/27/2002 11:09 PM PST
bush is a monkey. iraq isnt the only place with nuclear weapons, the whole world has them. bush just is a racist ass!!
Posted by anon @ 11/27/2002 04:38 PM PST
Well first of all Islam was not stopped by the west internal struggles forced it to retreat, secondly caesar existed in around 50 B.C. western roman empire collapsed in around 400 A.D.
But Sean Penn is right, being a Canadian, i value our constitutional freedoms greatly and as we have seen from Bush's actions whereby prisoners are not given full rights as POWs and amongst other human rights violations. Bush is nothing more than a trigger happy lunatic, that will probably bring down the united states as well as the rest of the world and cause a giant economic recession, the american economy slowdown. Bush has yet to even outline his plan for an attack in Iraq and has not provided an estimate for the price, his recklessness in spending will deplete the american treasury, causing the government to go into further debt and without the money needed to spend the country out of recession.
This jackass of a president should really think before he acts
Posted by Brian @ 11/26/2002 06:04 PM PST
Please. We do have a history lesson we can follow! In World War II, nations stood by while a dictator massacred his own populance, and invaded his neighbors. Finally, after talks and more talks, this nation blatantly violated rule after rule that the international community wrote up, and World War II started.
Ladies and Gentlemen, we have several similarities here, between post-WWI Germany and post-gulf war Iraq.
Because of ninny politicians, the Republican Guard was not destroyed. (about 100,000 troops... the irony is that Germany was only allowed 100,000 troops according the Versailles Treaty.) During that time, Germany was not seen as a threat; it was disarmed, in an economic slump, owed zillions to foreign nations. Leadership in disarray. Hmm... sounds like Iraq.
How toothless is Iraq? Should we wait until Iraq has invaded ANOTHER nation? Has used chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction? Has developed even an atomic bomb? Hmm?
As history has proven; we don't create weapons to just put them on display. We WILL use them.
Another history lesson. Vietnam. Once again, a peaceful solution was wanting to be found. North Vietnam NEVER had any intentions of a "peaceful solution." This has been proven, time and again in her actions. Only through VIOLENCE did North Vietnam respond. Everyone remembers the effects of Operation LineBacker. Everyone agrees that it was that campaign that brought North Vietnam back to the bargaining table.
Believe it or not ladies and gentlemen, VIOLENCE is what madmen like Hitler, Ho Chi Minh, and Saddam respond to. Not this sissy, ninny international laws.
Posted by GCariaga @ 11/26/2002 06:03 PM PST
Bush is evil. War is evil. There has to be a better idea then what this idiot is saying. The only way for peace is war? Our children are going to be left with this mess. Let's hope the next generation is wiser, stronger and can learn from past mistakes. Sean Penn is on the right track but I fear no one is listening.
Posted by Sweet Lips @ 11/26/2002 04:39 PM PST
A little pointer, if Bush's ugly face is put on Mount Rushmore, i guess we'll have no problem finding out the next place terrorist will bomb. I think Sean Penn's face should go there!
Posted by yog @ 11/26/2002 02:47 PM PST
I'm a Canadian and I'll make it simple. Just like the individual from the Canadian government saod, "Bush is a moron!" America is the center of the world right now and people like to judge who's in power. ANd it's simple, the world likes to judge people by their leaders, those who represent them. People look at Bush and look at America. I'm sure you Americans are not crazy assclowns like Bush. Some say he's intelligent, so Hitler was intelligent, did that make him a good guy, no! My parents, grandparents, and relatives have lived all over the world and have always repected Ameerica. Hell, my parents lived a good 6 years in beautiful SanDiego, however, much like the majority of the world, they do not respect Bush. It is a common belief that Bush has ruined the legacy of great Presidents. In summary, I like most respect Americans and care for them as my neighbours. What happens with America effects the whole world, that is how important America is and having Bush flip a coin on these decisions, doesn't just efect him or America, or Noth America, but the whole world. I'm sure some will disagree, some will agree, some will respond with history lessons, or tell me i must be a low educated foool or brainwashed, and so on, but hey it's the truth that what happens to America effects the world. Finally, i would like to mention something i felt was offensive by Bush. When he declared Iran as a top terrorist country, he should of mentioned their government are the bad guys. WHen he was at the olympics he stood and clapped for all countries,cept Iran. I sat and stared, wtf, those iranian athletes did nothing to Bush, they just living their lives and probably respect Americans more than their government. That prooves Bush doesn't care about innocent people. I also admire all the people like Mr. Penn who stand up against these causes and there should be more, cause the longer we wait with problems like Bush, the worst they get. Thx for reading and I'm sure those who disagree will have some interesting/hateful comments.
Have a nice day,
Posted by Your neighbour @ 11/26/2002 02:40 PM PST
I'm a Canadian and I'll make it simple. Just like the individual from the Canadian government saod, "Bush is a moron!" America is the center of the world right now and people like to judge who's in power. ANd it's simple, the world likes to judge people by their leaders, those who represent them. People look at Bush and look at America. I'm sure you Americans are not crazy assclowns like Bush. Some say he's intelligent, so Hitler was intelligent, did that make him a good guy, no! My parents, grandparents, and relatives have lived all over the world and have always repected Ameerica. Hell, my parents lived a good 6 years in beautiful SanDiego, however, much like the majority of the world, they do not respect Bush. It is a common belief that Bush has ruined the legacy of great Presidents. In summary, I like most respect Americans and care for them as my neighbours. What happens with America effects the whole world, that is how important America is and having Bush flip a coin on these decisions, doesn't just efect him or America, or Noth America, but the whole world. I'm sure some will disagree, some will agree, some will respond with history lessons, or tell me i must be a low educated foool or brainwashed, and so on, but hey it's the truth that what happens to America effects the world. Finally, i would like to mention something i felt was offensive by Bush. When he declared Iran as a top terrorist country, he should of mentioned their government are the bad guys. WHen he was at the olympics he stood and clapped for all countries,cept Iran. I sat and stared, wtf, those iranian athletes did nothing to Bush, they just living their lives and probably respect Americans more than their government. That prooves Bush doesn't care about innocent people. I also admire all the people like Mr. Penn who stand up against these causes and there should be more, cause the longer we wait with problems like Bush, the worst they get. Thx for reading and I'm sure those who disagree will have some interesting/hateful comments.
Have a nice day,
Posted by Your neighbour @ 11/26/2002 02:39 PM PST
I have no strong opinion about the situation with Iraq. However I agree that Bush is a menace, even if just because he is so ignorant. I guess noone realizes our president has a learning ability. It's true. But it is also true that the terrorists come from these Middle Eastern nations such a Iraq and so on some points I agree with him (or his ghost-written speeches at least.) The fundamentalist rulers of these nations support terrorism, mostly with money they get by charging America rising amounts for oil. If America doesn't get these people I hope the U.N. lets Israel have it's way with the scum. Let the guilty be purged and the innocent saved!
Posted by Xardioso @ 11/26/2002 10:27 AM PST
All I have to say on the subject is, If Bush wants Saddam to be killed, Let him do it himself instead of sending an innocent kid over there. Or let him send his daughters. Otherwise live and let live.
Posted by John C @ 11/26/2002 10:16 AM PST
All I have to say on the subject is, If Bush wants Saddam to be killed, Let him do it himself instead of sending an innocent kid over there. Or let him send his daughters. Otherwise live and let live.
Posted by John C @ 11/26/2002 10:15 AM PST
Dear Mr. Penn, Your letter is not just addressed to president Bush, but to the entire population of the United States of America. What president Bush stated is backed up by our constitution, the declaration of independence as well as the Gettysburg address, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" etc. etc. Almost 70 million Americans back up president Bush because what was attacked and what we are defending is our American culture. I'd rather be dead than to live like them assholes in Al Quaida. Thank you for your time. Now be gone with yourself.
Posted by Dan @ 11/25/2002 11:42 PM PST
Do any of you Pseudo-Intellectuals know how to proof read or use a spell checker?
Posted by Matt @ 11/25/2002 08:18 PM PST
this oustanding artical is not only true but funny as hell to go along with it!!!!!!!!!
Posted by michael emerson @ 11/25/2002 05:17 PM PST
P.S. If Bush wants Sadam Dead so badly I think he should strap a bomb to his chest and give Sadam a big hug and take out two asswholes with one blow if u agree give me a hell ya
Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 11:43 AM PST
I hope bush Burns a firy death in HELL :)Bush is The True Terrioist Dam Texas Bastastard go back to you ranch and stay there. And after he pisses everone off so they attack he will be hiding while we all get bombed thanx for your care of our ecosystem and our LIVES by the way im being sarcastic.Die Die Die how many times can i say Die i got the fbi at the door now there tapin my phones know one disses bush and gets away with it cya later maybe :(
Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 09:42 AM PST
Bush is a ignerent fool he knows nothing about politics he has his speeches written for him and which he screws them up ever chance he gets I myself think hes a bigger threat to this country then sadam i agree with sean penn's speech bush is retarded he goes running around pissing off ever one he can if your gonna have a war dont go pissing everone off so they join against you anyone who voted for bush im hope your happy are econmy is a pile of shit now
Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 09:30 AM PST
I Think his letter is the Fact and all of ya slanderin' this letter; are lost, already brainwashed by the Tyrant G.W.B .Bush is difinitly on the tripp of policing the world."good & Evil" what is that bush!, he sez it like America,its allies - good , Saddam,Al qaeda - Evil! is what u hear! But when in fact his intention is America,Me - Good ,Iraq,afgahnistan,ETC - Evil!He dosent want peace & Justice! He wants pain and sufferin amongst those countries in question! Probably even has a plan for world domination you never know America! I believe seans letter. If bush didnt read it, an take any of it into consideration he will surely lose his people! Unless u yanks believe everything u see on telly!
Posted by Kanaspa @ 11/24/2002 07:32 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:14 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:12 PM PST
Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states anmy and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.
Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:12 PM PST
ok so what he is saying is to leave iraq alone? so he can try to take over another country? so he can mustard gas his own people again? or so he can continue to violate UN laws again? so he can continue to shoot and UN planes? for over 10years iraq has violated laws of the world. inocent will most likey die in a war. but the main fact is that many more will be saved and have a brighter future if sadam is removed. and that is a sure fact. and if you dont think so.. go live there
Posted by humadh @ 11/24/2002 02:12 PM PST
would you pussies want to keep the peace with the same guy that raped your mother or your sister, or would you hunt his ass and take out his throat? wtf?
Posted by Denizen @ 11/24/2002 11:27 AM PST
would you pussies want to keep with the same guy that raped your mother or your sister, or would you hunt his ass and take out his throat? wtf?
Posted by Denizen @ 11/24/2002 11:27 AM PST
To disarm with force? Funny how that sounds... To bomb a country with women and children, isn't that the same thing Iraq is doing...?
Posted by Incursion~ @ 11/24/2002 10:58 AM PST
Maybe Sean should stick to something he knows. Like...let's see. He couldnt hang on to the hottest chick on the planet. His acting is mediocre. He exibits his ignorance of the reality of politics. What's that leave?
Posted by curt @ 11/24/2002 06:26 AM PST
Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:56 AM PST
Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:55 AM PST
Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:54 AM PST
sean penn needs to go to history class. SEAN PENN IS AN IDIOT!
Posted by DAVID KOVELDA @ 11/23/2002 10:41 PM PST
Liberals are full of useless humanist bullshit. Democrats are republicans who lie more. And republicans are neo-nazis. "America's good to the world?" Nostalgic cliches, tied to cliches. Let's go to Iraq. Let's allow Bush Co. (all rights reserved) to go ahead and invade countries that pose possibilities of a possibility of a threat. Let's make the entire world to hate America's fascist neo-colonial empire. And let's make them react, attack us, kill our own civilians the way America does to them. Because it is the only way to really rid the world of America as the empire supreme, the superpower. The replacement will be a fascist fundamentalist empire, or perhaps China. The world is in the hands of the people. If you choose to be silent against the actions of America, then you are not innocent- you are on the side of chaos and American violence. And you are an acceptable enemy, choosing to be a target for terrorists. The time is now to stand up and say that we want rid of corporate America. America has already destroyed all discussion: "You're either with us, or against us." Well, I'm against you, Hitler-reincarnate. Send me your hate mail
Posted by Ekrem S @ 11/23/2002 03:27 PM PST
By the way, Duncan. You use the Romans constanly as an example, too bad they were wiped out due to a cezar who made the wrong choises at the wrong time, so maybe you should think about your compairison for a while, because the US might be going down the same path as Rome.
Posted by The Minnow @ 11/23/2002 01:38 AM PST
I am commenting on Gi Joe(11/21/02), who calls all the anti-war people ingorant fools, and thretens to bomb us next...Just think of the dumbass who would just as soon bomb the shit out of you that see you, then you see what our world is coming too.
Posted by Jon @ 11/23/2002 12:12 AM PST
Every 300 to 500 years, Islam rises up to destroy other cultures, take them over, and make them believe what they do. Last time they performed this little trick, the world stopped them at Vienna's doorstep. (Remember history?)
Time, I'd say, to clean house once again.
Marc Robinson
Posted by Marc Robinson @ 11/22/2002 07:53 AM PST
wow...from san francisco even. me too. um....
i didn't read the whole letter you wrote, cause i have ADD and i can't focus for that long, but i like the beggining.
i myself have written a propaganda page on my website. http://www.com3designs.com
Posted by theFixer @ 11/22/2002 07:34 AM PST
i'm a pretty kitty,
Posted by Nate V @ 11/22/2002 06:22 AM PST
he is right, i normally don't give a piss or fart about what famous people say, but in that one letter he said what i've been thinking for a long time, oh and all you people who say he's wrong and that he doesn't know sh*t about what hes sayin, i have one question for you, have you shaved off any of your wool latly? i need new socks.
Posted by dinger @ 11/22/2002 03:41 AM PST
he is right, i normally don't give a piss or fart about what famous people say, but in that one letter he said what i've been thinking for a long time, oh and all you people who say he's wrong and that he doesn't know sh*t about what hes sayin, i have one question for you, have you shaved off any of your wool latly? i need new socks.
Posted by dinger @ 11/22/2002 03:40 AM PST
Plain and simple, America has the right to defend itself against terrorist and terrorist supporting nations, Iraq will get bomber to ensure safety of American citizens, and acourse the prosperity of americans(Terroism bad for econ, War good for econ). Iraq supports terrorist so were going after them. Sure there is a million other bull shit reasons you can come up with, some new world order crap, oil-(only fucking reason we havn't blown them all to hell yet), what ever bull shit your paranoid mind thinks of. I'm glad to live in a country where people have the right to talk so down about the people protecting them. I really think though our country should stop being a charity for the rest of the world. Giving hand outs to everyone, and getting pissed on in return. I don't give a fuck about the rest of the world, let them fend for themselfs, America should take care of itself, and fuck all political bull shit. No other country seems to appretiate a god damn thing America has done, which is funny, cause the only reason we are on such forums right now is because of american inventions. Go to hell you greesy back water nation beaners. Im ranting, and one more thing, stfu all you liberal scum claiming bush is some dictator. Learn how the american goverment works, Bush does not have absolute power
Posted by Whatever @ 11/21/2002 09:47 PM PST
You are mistaken to believe the world can function as a whole. People cannot be governed on such a grand scale, it's simply impossible. Saddam must be brought down, but the only way it will happen is by war. If this had been settled before he grew so powerful then this problem would have been avoided, but as is there's no way he will be removed from power except through war or assassination.
Next, marijuana could easily cause harm to another person by you smoking it. Taking any kind of drug like that affects your judgement and distorts your sense or reality. If you were to get behind the wheel of a car it would be very easy for you to harm another person. Also, if you're smoking around a person that doesn't do marijuana then you are damaging them. Don't come back with that crap that it doesn't hurt you at all, because it does slow down your brain cells and over time can really mess you up, and that's been scientifically proven.
As always, I'll be waiting for any further comments from the masses.
Posted by Graham @ 11/21/2002 09:08 PM PST
I am very good with people:talking with them, partying with them, and relating to issues of all sorts. The topic of war has come up many times, and I cannot agree with almost any suggestions that I have heard. I for one agree that Sadaam must fall, and that we should bring him down, but that is only beacause no one else will. It is through the faults of the world that he has grown so powerful, and the world must come together and act as one to stop him and any further people (or groups) from attaining such evil.
Posted by Yarmo @ 11/21/2002 08:02 PM PST
I am a soldier... war keeps me employed... shut the fuck up.. or we bomb you next.
Posted by Gi Joe @ 11/21/2002 07:29 PM PST
I am a soldier... war keeps me employed... shut the fuck up.. or we bomb you next.
Posted by Gi Joe @ 11/21/2002 07:29 PM PST
I have read several coments posted on this article, and I cannot help but respond to the ignorance and stupidity with with the great majority of you have written. The first several posts are evident enough of the gross lack of intelligence found in these people that are degrading to very title of "American." I say this not because I am some blind patriot who follows purely "for love of country," but rather because I grow tired of these false beliefs held so strongly yet voiced so loudly by the most ignorant among us.
First issue: President Bush. This is an intelligent man. Consider, Bush parties through college and passes with very decent grades, and Gore (who claims to have been a straight shooter but was said to love doing drugs as often as he could by his roommate) flunks out of Harvard. But, of course, the liberalized media displays every word fumbling of Bush as a poster to the world saying "I'm nothing more than an oil-tycoon-cow-poke from Texas." Say what you will of his actions, but it cannot be said that he is a stupid man.
Second issue: War with Iraq. War is never a pleasant result to come from one's actions, but there are times when it is a very necessary tool to impliment. I by no means feel this country should act as the "World Police," and I was in no wat pleased by our interference with Israel and Palestine, but this is an issue which is in direct conflict with ourselves. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, that cannot be denined. Any among you that might say that's still in debate is a fool, and that is a merciful term for them. Iraq is a serious threat to the world, and we are part of this world. It is only a matter of time before Saddam attacks with his weapons of mass destruction. Why does he want them? Not for a defensive maneuver, he wants them as a tactical strike to cripple enemies, which we are possibly the biggest enemy they have. Saddam is not a man to show restraint as most other world leaders. He would take any steps necessary to establish himself as the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world. It is vitally important that we not wait to be attacked before we do anything, because I guarantee any attack coming from them would be as a crippling attack that would severly limit our ability to respond. He would be a fool to not do so. Weapons inspectors are of no use. He constantly stalls them to insure he can move anything incrimanting before they can reach where he is hiding his weapons. This war cannot be avoided unless something is done with Saddam.
Issue 3: Democrats. I hate them. They are nothing more than a corrupt party seeking nothing more than political power and personal gain. Do not respond by saying Republicans are corrupt as well because that would be a true showing of your stupidity. Republicans stand for something and they stick by their beliefs and are unwilling to compromise them. Democrats do whatever it takes to gain the favor of the populus. Liberalism is a good thing, it promotes change, and conservativism is good as well, because it prevents our society as a whole from becoming corrupt. But you cannot say one is good without the other, because that is when chaos reigns. I am not a Republican, and spit at the name of Democrat. The vast majority of Democrats don't even realize what they're saying they stand for by adopting that name, they're merely following the crowd or their parents who mistakingly hold on to their beliefs that Democrats are still the "Party for the common man." Things are not the way they were 20 years ago.
Issue 4: nothing. I'm tired and I don't want carpal-tunnel syndrome. I leave these for you to ponder.
P.S. Rome fell because every nation must fall. No nation maintains world power for too long. It's the pattern of civilization.
Posted by Graham @ 11/21/2002 03:53 PM PST
With or without grease?
Posted by Slippery Slope @ 11/21/2002 02:10 PM PST
osama and bush buttfuck each other
Posted by osama @ 11/21/2002 02:00 PM PST
Well, Frost, you are correct only in that the United Snakes of AmeriKKKa is tyranical. I said that Duncan blames liberals only, not conservatives. BOTH sides are to blame. It's very easy to observe from a distance what is happening to us over here. You say we are puppets on a string, but wait until the Bush Dynasty comes a knock-knock-knockin' at your door. Think not? Denmark now is committing troops to Iraq. Germany seems to be the only NATO member holding out on Herr Bush. Do you think that apathy caused the Vietnam War to end? It was ANGER and SADNESS put together with mobilization. Everybody is an armchair activist until it affects them. So I will continue to call phony liberals and conservatives just that, PHONEY.
AND AGAIN PEOPLE, WILL YOU SUBMIT TO FORCED SMALLPOX VACCINATION AND IMPLANTED MICROCHIPS???????? WOULD YOU MR. FROST and DUNCAN?
Posted by Time Step @ 11/21/2002 08:54 AM PST
Very interesting.
Posted by Frost @ 11/21/2002 04:23 AM PST
"The most prosperous nation on earth should be doing far more to help third world countries thus building respect and goodwill and reducing the threat of terrorism"
I hate this comment more than anything else. It isn't my responsibility to pay for some 3rd world countries problems. I am responsible for myself--so fearing for my own life and that of family and loved ones I support pre-active actions against IRAQ. But I still think Bush is decietful and (well this is the biggest insult ever) a "politician". I would like to see some effort put into "global warming" "salmon and other fish populations dieing" etc etc. ...What the U.S. needs is more Statesmen not Politicians.
Posted by Cliff @ 11/21/2002 01:35 AM PST
First of all from my understanding Rome did not fall because of invasion. If internal decay, apathy of the Senatorial class and bad financial management did not lead to a stress of the Roman state, unified Roman armies would be defending against the German sto this day. Little note, Ottoman Empire not till many centures after Rome, Byzantine Empire=eastern roman empire that did not fall. Celts? The celts became Romanized. Augustus Ceaser was the first roman emperor at the empire's height. The parrellel that we CAN draw between Rome and the current state of America is that just like many American citizens now, Romans were ignorant of the decay of the empire because they didn't want to belive it and did nto take the neccesary steps to stop this decay. Far from wanting to conquer the Senate wanted to remember the 'good old day's.
However I agree with the sentiment of most of you. War is a bad thing. That simple statement is the utmost truth. While war can spur an economy or even 'civilize your country(if ripping off older cultures and taking just what you want while not learning how to farm the Tiber river is civilized_, one thing that Romans learned is that if you crap on people while your on top, when your on the way down those people are gunna get you back. For centuries German tribes looked up to Roman sand wanted to be like them, but after a Roman patrictian makes fun of you for wearing pants and eating butter for four hundred years while not giving you any respect or rights. you might sack Rome for the hell of it.
Okay I'm goin gon a tangent here. The point is Mr. Penn's letter was impressivly articulate and educated and represented what I would say is a valid point. I think I'm pretty much agreeing with him because I don't think he's saying that we shouldn't do anything but that Bush is going about it the wrong way. Honestly in this so called' war on terrorism' and such things like taking on Saddam there are things we have to do that won't be nicey nice. We have to draw a line where we defend ourselves without betraying our ideals of democracy, republacanism, liberalism, the contistution, rights of man, etc. Do i have the answers? no. nobody does. We have to figure it out togher brining in all sides. Label that liberal or what you will, but if you belive in America then you better read your history. We broke away from an Empire to form a country based on the rights of the average man (albeit a white property owning man at the time but we've gone beyond that) We built a government KNOWINg people are corrupt and would try to abuse power for their own ends and we thought we had to stop that because everyong had certain rights that souldnt' be violated. If that's not liberal then mabyee I let SUNY suck money from my pocket for no reason. Sorry for the soapbox and if it sucks I dditn' feel like rewritting it and I'm tired. Thank you and take care
Posted by staryrebel @ 11/20/2002 08:03 PM PST
Oops, sorry. I didn't realize that this was one of those comment pages that doubled things accidentally.
Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:22 PM PST
Normally, in a situation like this, I would comment on Mr. Penn's letter, say what I think is true, and what I think is in need for my opinion. However, in the light of the recent comments made by everybody else who has seen this letter (i.e., the 258 comments below it), I feel that it is my obligation to write to you, and throw in my thoughts as well.
Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:19 PM PST
Normally, in a situation like this, I would comment on Mr. Penn's letter, say what I think is true, and what I think is in need for my opinion. However, in the light of the recent comments made by everybody else who has seen this letter (i.e., the 258 comments below it), I feel that it is my obligation to write to you, and throw in my thoughts as well.
Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:18 PM PST
Ok Duncan,
What most intelligent liberals and conservatives (that doesn't include you) agree on is that you can love a country or it's people, but loath an administration or regime. I suppose you would have been backing Hitler in 1933 Germany because "It's the State, Love the Fatherland".
Oh, I'm not inpressed by your Military and History mastering. You are studying history from the elite/conquering point of view, and not the common man/woman. I am a 3D animator and music composer for a very well known chip manufacturer. We do TV and radio commercials. I am very aware of how you can brainwash people through the media. I add my own flavor to commercials and the corporate types love it. We're both happy. I refuse to manipulate even poor slobs like Duncan, even though that's very easy to do.
One last question Duncan the Klansman, will you submit to an imbedded chip and forced smallpox vaccination?
Posted by Time Step @ 11/20/2002 07:41 AM PST
Ok Duncan,
What most intelligent liberals and conservatives (that doesn't include you) agree on is that you can love a country or it's people, but loath an administration or regime. I suppose you would have been backing Hitler in 1933 Germany because "It's the State, Love the Fatherland".
Oh, I'm not inpressed by your Military and History mastering. You are studying history from the elite/conquering point of view, and not the common man/woman. I am a 3D animator and music composer for a very well known chip manufacturer. We do TV and radio commercials. I am very aware of how you can brainwash people through the media. I add my own flavor to commercials and the corporate types love it. We're both happy. I refuse to manipulate even poor slobs like Duncan, even though that's very easy to do.
One last question Duncan the Klansman, will you submit to an imbedded chip and forced smallpox vaccination?
Posted by Time Step @ 11/20/2002 07:41 AM PST
I don't think it's really about whether we should look at the president and what he's doing right and wrong. I think that we should look at what we can do and how we can stop suffering. It's time to grow out of egotistic and materialistic thought process. It's time to stop the pain and anguish. Our political system is corrupt, but what can we do against it? Is the answer nothing? I do not have that answer, and, in fact, I have much fewer answers than I have questions because I am just as ignorant as the rest of us. All I know is that we need to pay attention to what we do and how we can change what is happening. We need to stop intrinsic self-preservation and become more altruistic. This is not something to be forced. It is only by free will can one choose this, and this will to choose can only be driven by self-sacrifice at the assuagement of someone else's suffering
Posted by Chris @ 11/19/2002 11:04 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/19/2002 09:43 PM PST
Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?
can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?
...if any?
Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:25 PM PST
Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?
can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?
...if any?
Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:25 PM PST
Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?
can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?
...if any?
Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:24 PM PST
Alright Timestep, let's begin shall we?
No. I don't go to chemwhatever and haven't bothered looking at it either. I post in various places, look me up some time, I'm not hard to find.
I blame liberals for a large number of things. I blame them for apathy, I blame them for a waste of government funds on nonworking programs such as welfare and affirmative action. I blame them for weakening the military, I blame them for not standing up for their own country, and I blame them for rallying to the cause of nations and individuals who hate this country. That is what I blame Liberals for.
I am not a pavlovian dog there cur, I'm an American Citizen, and one with a masters degree in history and military theory. Can you say the same for yourself? How can you say that Rome was not a civilization when the very foundation upon which the modern world is grounded in are lessons learned by Rome?
Learn a bit of history before you decide to rant off about things you know nothing about.
Duncan
Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 04:15 PM PST
Alright Timestep, let's begin shall we?
No. I don't go to chemwhatever and haven't bothered looking at it either. I post in various places, look me up some time, I'm not hard to find.
I blame liberals for a large number of things. I blame them for apathy, I blame them for a waste of government funds on nonworking programs such as welfare and affirmative action. I blame them for weakening the military, I blame them for not standing up for their own country, and I blame them for rallying to the cause of nations and individuals who hate this country. That is what I blame Liberals for.
I am not a pavlovian dog there cur, I'm an American Citizen, and one with a masters degree in history and military theory. Can you say the same for yourself? How can you say that Rome was not a civilization when the very foundation upon which the modern world is grounded in lessons learned by Rome?
Learn a bit of history before you decide to rant off about things you know nothing about.
Duncan
Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 04:15 PM PST
To Duncan,
You keep blaming "Liberals" for the problems. How Linear!!!And STUPID!
Here's the situation:
The Following Conservatives are against The Oil War:
You are a Robot of The State to think in the left/right mode. Don't be yelling at people to think for themselves, when you are a Pavlovian Dog.
You state Rome as an advancment of civilization. Good Choice!! Dummy!!!!!!
Posted by Time Step @ 11/19/2002 03:41 PM PST
Yeah, consider this, if we goto war with The middle east THERE GOES OUR OIL = THERE GOES our economy, you people who want war so bad can just bend over and take it!!!!!!!!!
Posted by Anon @ 11/19/2002 03:22 PM PST
ok.
let's all participate in a lil' exercise.
let's all print out a copy of this discussion thread and file it away some place safe.
in 5 years, let's re-convene and review the thread.
if bush's approval rating is above 75% (i'm assuming the crook will still be in power), i'll eat my copy.
if the US has not been accused of conspiring to start this world war, i'll eat my copy.
if evidence of our complicity in 2001's horrific attacks has not been embraced by mainstream media, i'll eat my copy.
that is, assuming this thread doesn't land me in jail thanks to our new homeland security guidelines.
if this, my sole posting, does get me in trouble with the gubment, y'all will eat your copies.
bon appetit, suckers!
Posted by ronnie james dio @ 11/19/2002 02:49 PM PST
A note to Duncan: Nazism and Fascism are to the extreme right. Communism is to the extreme left.
The Red Bard
Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/19/2002 03:49 AM PST
Very mature there "Adolf". How old are you? Twelve?
Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 12:08 AM PST
Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST
Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST
Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST
Hi everyone, I live in Mexico and I believe that Americans are slimey pigs with no lives at all. So I hope you guys go to war and I hope that America loses.
Posted by Dirty Sanchez @ 11/18/2002 11:25 PM PST
Hi everyone, I live in Mexico and I believe that Americans are slimey pigs with no lives at all. So I hope you guys go to war and I hope that America loses.
Posted by Dirty Sanchez @ 11/18/2002 11:24 PM PST
I have no problem with the bombing of civilians. I have no problems with the sufferings of others. I have no problems with that at all, and would you like to know why?
Because I'm an American. We have problems of our own enough here. We don't need to fix the problems of the world, that is why other countries have governments and leaders. We aren't a fucking charity and we don't need to act like one. If a country has poor people, maybe THEY should do something about it. If a country is poor, maybe they should stop pouring money into a military that is inept comparitivly. MAYBE if that occured we could have worldwide peace, but it won't happen. My views aren't intolerance, they are simple. America should care for it's self first, and its allies second. We aren't the caretaker of the world, nor should we act as such.
You want intolerance, fine. Nigger. There you go, now you can call me a hatemonger also, it's not what I believe or think, but I used the word to make you happy and to give you a reason to hate me because I support the government. Not that you need a reason to hate me, you probably hate the government because they don't send checks to you fast enough. The government needs to stop being the hand out king and start making people be proud of the fact they are American. Stand up for the country you live in, this isn't Nazi Germany no matter how much left wing liberals push it. This isn't a hell on earth, and G.W. Bush didn't cause the attacks on the towers no matter how much false evidence can be manufactured that looks as such.
How long do you have to listen to lies from Liberals before you realize that they have their own propaganda and slander machines working full time to make you think such? Weigh the facts objectivly, get them from legitimate sources, not from people with a beef against one person or another. Get them from impartial and concise sources, then try to think for yourself.
It's very refreshing.
Yes, War advances civilization. The romans advanced civilization through conquoring others, the same occured here within America with the native Americans.
Think before you speak man, the world has enough liberals who hate just because they think that free thinking means disagreeing with reality or the government. If you really want to think for yourself, do so, but don't spout things which others before you have said in better, more articulate phrases.
Posted by Duncan @ 11/18/2002 10:48 PM PST
I have no problem with the bombing of civilians. I have no problems with the sufferings of others. I have no problems with that at all, and would you like to know why?
Because I'm an American. We have problems of our own enough here. We don't need to fix the problems of the world, that is why other countries have governments and leaders. We aren't a fucking charity and we don't need to act like one. If a country has poor people, maybe THEY should do something about it. If a country is poor, maybe they should stop pouring money into a military that is inept comparitivly. MAYBE if that occured we could have worldwide peace, but it won't happen. My views aren't intolerance, they are simple. America should care for it's self first, and its allies second. We aren't the caretaker of the world, nor should we act as such.
You want intolerance, fine. Nigger. There you go, now you can call me a hatemonger also, it's not what I believe or think, but I used the word to make you happy and to give you a reason to hate me because I support the government. Not that you need a reason to hate me, you probably hate the government because they don't send checks to you fast enough. The government needs to stop being the hand out king and start making people be proud of the fact they are American. Stand up for the country you live in, this isn't Nazi Germany no matter how much left wing liberals push it. This isn't a hell on earth, and G.W. Bush didn't cause the attacks on the towers no matter how much false evidence can be manufactured that looks as such.
How long do you have to listen to lies from Liberals before you realize that they have their own propaganda and slander machines working full time to make you think such? Weigh the facts objectivly, get them from legitimate sources, not from people with a beef against one person or another. Get them from impartial and concise sources, then try to think for yourself.
It's very refreshing.
Yes, War advances civilization. The romans advanced civilization through conquoring others, the same occured here within America with the native Americans.
Think before you speak man, the world has enough liberals who hate just because they think that free thinking means disagreeing with reality or the government. If you really want to think for yourself, do so, but don't spout things which others before you have said in better, more articulate phrases.
Posted by Duncan @ 11/18/2002 10:26 PM PST
good insights Dr. Timothy Leary
Posted by bob @ 11/18/2002 09:00 PM PST
I just want to thank Duncan. It is your simplistic and intolerant view, and those like you that has got us where we are today. I am glad to be part of an advancing civilization. Who'd of thought that all that was needed to be a part of this advancing civilization was the indiscriminant bombing and enforcement of brutal sanctions against already poor and sick civillians.
Posted by Phil @ 11/18/2002 08:18 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 07:06 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:54 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:53 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:51 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:50 PM PST
"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler
"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell
Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.
If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"
Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.
"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx
www.davidicke.com
Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:49 PM PST
Sean Penn doesn't know jack about what he's talking about. His points are tenuous. Like his last paragraph; what the hell was that? He's droning on about fundamentalism, but from the way he uses the word, it makes me doubt that he actually knows what it means.
This makes me want to kick his ass. But I wouldn't have to, because if we lived in a world where we simply stopped fighting back against the terrorists, they'd bomb his ass before I had a chance to kick it.
I don't believe in Bush's doctrine of invading a country to get its oil under the guise of destroying its weapons of mass destruction. But I also don't believe that we can wash our problems away by sticking our heads in the sand (no pun intended).
My advice to solve the problem in Iraq? I don't have one, and I'm man enough to admit that I don't have all the answers. But I do know that:
A) We can't spend billions on a war, then tens of billions on occupation. And we had goddamn well not have good American boys dying in the streets of Baghdad.
B) A few hundred weapon inspectors, if there even are that many, can NOT effectively find every possible weapon cache/weapon lab in a country the size of France, no matter how good their technology is. Weapons inspectors are redundant; there are nearly as many Hussein Presidental Palaces as there are field UN inspectors.
There needs to be some grand think-tank debates to figure this one out. Don't be afraid to think yourselves, too. But my advice is not take Sean Penn's.
Posted by Gunboat @ 11/18/2002 05:00 PM PST
Wow. Thats a stunning letter. I completely agree. Maybe Sean Penn should be the next President ;)
Posted by HK @ 11/18/2002 01:30 PM PST
Wow, that was one hell of a letter, and I have to say Sean Penn brought up some damn good points, unfortunatly because of the United States previous conflicts with the middle east we are now ever further entrenched in the struggle. For it was the US who first supplied Hussien with weapons and money to battle Iran and communism. All actions up to this point in time to bring peace to the middle east have only spawned more chaos. The sad truth is that no mater what we do we keep digging ourselves deeper, To completely back out of the middle east in their(iraqi's, Terrorsits ect) eyes would been seen as a retreat and a sign of weakness. Perhaps that would satisfy them enough or encourage them to go on the offensive. More US presance in the middle east will only spawn more terror. I do not comend Pres Bush on his current status with the situation nor condem it, after all who out there truely knows how to handle this situtation so that everyone comes out happy...
Posted by Ben @ 11/18/2002 12:44 PM PST
First of all, to list all of the anomolies concerning 9/11 would take up too much space. They all were involved, Bush, Cheney, Bin Laden, Sharon, Rumsfeld, Hussein, ad nauseum.
Maybe you should all study history a little and see who supported the Nazis from 1939-1941. Luminaries such as Prescott Bush, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, and the Rockefellers. It's the same mindset who support The Dumbking now.
Sean Penn....Good job.....Someone who takes the Risk. More power to all of us.
One more thing....Will all you bellicose baboons who support The Smirking Chimp, also take your mandatory smallpox vaccine and install the implanted VeriChip?
Posted by Swamp Gas @ 11/18/2002 10:07 AM PST
Would Bush start a war for his own benift? Well, all I am going to say is that before 9-11, he was seen as quite a weak and foolish leader by most of the world, who had got into power through not entirely legitamate means, and had spent more time on holiday than any president in power. Come 9-11, and he is suddenly reinvented as a courageous and bold leader, rebuilding his country. The only person who seems to have gained anything from this whole situation is Bush.
Posted by Frank @ 11/18/2002 06:18 AM PST
I liked Mr. Penn’s letter. Obviously he was intending it for many people other than Herr Bush, but I’m sure that it will reach at least a few of the functionaries within the administration, perhaps even to Der Furher’s desk. Stranger things have happened. Someone wrote that the money would have been better spent for a message from Chomsky, I don’t agree. I respect Chomsky very much, but unfortunately he has been somewhat marginalized, and his opinions on these matters are already well known. I believe having another message from an unexpected quarter, albeit somewhat lukewarm, is of greater benefit. Hopefully this will embolden others to take a stand, and put their money where there mouth is.
I wanted to cover some points that came to mind while reading some readers’ comments. Although I won’t be able to bury the entire stinking pile of idiocy I encountered, I hope I’ll be able to wake at least a few people up:
1. UN resolutions: Yes, Iraq is in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. So what! There are many countries in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. Our (so called) ally Israel is the undisputed champion of UN Security Council resolution violations, and has a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons with global deployment capabilities, and has invaded every one of its neighboring countries several times.
2. Weapons inspections: Weapons inspections never stopped in Iraq. The IAEA, the enforcement agency for the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact, has been inspecting Iraq yearly as Iraq is a signatory of that pact. Guess which country just “excused” itself from that pact recently: The US!
3. UN weapons inspections: Saddam never kicked the UN inspectors out of Iraq, they were withdrawn by the UN in anticipation of Operation Desert Fox. Here is where Clinton got to stroke that big American military phallus, for those who thought he was such a saint. Saddam was not being very cooperative at the time, making accusations of inspectors spying for the US and perhaps Israel. Guess what? One of the inspectors admitted that he was probably right, and that it was unavoidable. I agree, he was probably right, that’s why I don’t think ANY global body has the right to impose its will on the sovereignty of ANY nation. As far as Saddam’s lack of cooperation now, he seems to have the same objections, and the UN keeps changing its demands. It looks to me like the UN is making demands it has no right make, and is negotiating in bad faith.
4. Saddam is a horrible dictator that needs to be ousted: Well, I won’t disagree that he’s a horrible dictator. The reason that US establishment wants him out, though, is that he’s not OUR horrible dictator. The Baath party junta (of which Saddam is a part) was backed by the US in the late ‘60s, in order to remove a regime that the US didn’t like. Saddam was backed by the US in the late ‘70s to the late ‘80s and was provided with materials to manufacture biological and chemical weapons in order to prosecute a war against Iran. The new Iranian regime had recently ousted the US backed dictatorship installed in the ‘50s. Iraq apparently did use chemical weapons in this war, as did Iran. Saddam may have ordered the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds, but did you know that they were fighting for Iran? Iraq did invade Kuwait over a border dispute that was as old as the formation of those states after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire after WWI. Did you know, though, that Saddam had asked for permission from the Daddy Bush administration before invading, and that Saddam was told it was not the US’ concern? We were allies, after all! Also, of note, is the fact that the US had invaded Panama around this time. What was that about a pot and kettle? The fact is that the US has backed, installed, and or trained many dictators, depots, and mass murderers throughout the years. Look for information on Fort Benning Georgia, the School of the Americas, and now the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. The fact is the US establishment has no compunctions about exerting its will on people anywhere in the world, using our brothers and sisters in the military, while they and their children use lame excuses or National Guard duty to avoid putting their own asses on the line. I’m not very supportive of the military or the mindset of those who choose that path, but there is one and only one legitimate use for it, defense. Defense does not mean playing with the politics of other countries in order to benefit some influential businessmen, or for anyone’s benefit for that matter. Neither is defense, “we should …um… get ‘im first, or somthin’ cuz he might …er… use newcular boms on my daddy…er I mean us sumday.” Defense is the use of force when force has been used on you, or an EXPLICIT threat of force has been made. THERE IS NO OTHER LEGITIMATE USE OF FORCE. In case anyone is wondering, the founding fathers warned against “foreign entanglements.” Defense of other countries is not a legitimate use of force by this country, either. The US, nor anyone else for that matter, should play the role of word policeman. All that leads to is world war, world government, and world tyranny.
5. Hitler: To those who try to compare Saddam to Hitler. Europe was none of our business. Yes, he was certainly a bastard. Once again the US establishment backed a murderous dictator (at least into the ‘30s), but when he became too much of an embarrassment, the US sided with an even worse murderous dictator, Stalin. FDR tried to provoke Germany into a war with the US that he had promised that we would not get involved in. Failing there he did provoke Japan into attacking and kept the Pearl Harbor command in the dark in order to guarantee the fruition of his plan (look for “day of deceit” for the documented evidence of this and much more). The water gets even muddier when you look at allied fire-bombings of civilians in Dresden and Tokyo, as well as the nuclear bombings of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki when Germany and Japan were already defeated and had already begun negotiations for surrender. If you think I’m full of it, find out for yourself what McArthur had to say about it. Another good one is Operation Keelhaul, where Britain and the US sent 2 million refugees from the USSR back into that murderous regime’s waiting arms, or the mysterious “disappearance” of more than 2 million Wermacht POWs after Germany’s defeat. Saddam is no Hitler, and he isn’t particularly bad compared to the other dictators propped up by the US over the years. The only real animosity he has for any country in the region is Israel, and they can certainly take care of themselves with their ultra-modern military and nuclear arsenal paid for with US taxpayer money. As far as I’m concerned, Ariel Sharon is at least as bad as Saddam Hussein. Considering Israel’s history of aggression on neighbors and on the indigenous peoples, well, not our problem. The most responsible thing to do would be to stop funding Israel’s Wermacht.
6. War on Afghanistan: The official 9-11 story with the convenient “evidence” trail was immediately recognizable as some cheap pulp mystery novel. Several international publications had reported months before 9-11 that the US was going to invade Afghanistan to oust the Taliban (apparently in order to stabilize the region in order to run oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Basin through Afghanistan into China and the Indian Ocean as well as increase opium production that was being suppressed by the Taliban). Several of the supposed “Arab hijackers” are still alive and some others had been dead for some time. The FBI has admitted these facts on several occasions but continued to list these men’s pictures and names, knowing that these and probably all of the identities were stolen. No Arab names were listed on any of the flight lists. Apparently, none of the 4 allegedly hijacked planes were intercepted by fighters during the entire several hour period between the time the first went off course and the last plane crashed even though there were several AF and ANG bases nearby(possible exception of a shoot-down of the plane in Pennsylvania). The Taliban offered to release Osama bin Laden to an international criminal court if the US would provide evidence that he was involved in the events, the US did not offer any such evidence. The US has killed several thousand civilians and apparently has been involved in the murder of several thousand POWs as well as bombed Red Cross compounds on several occasions in Afghanistan. Is this the Infinite Justice the War Party was referring to? The US continues to hold prisoners, most of whom were simply defending their country from foreign invaders, from this ongoing war in conditions that contradict the Geneva Convention of which the use is a signatory. Basically, the US used a criminal event allegedly committed by an international organization to justify prosecuting a war against a sovereign nation that was not even accused of being involved. Do not delude yourself that we were there to liberate the Afghan people from the tyranny of the Taliban. The Taliban was preferred by many to the murderous Northern Alliance that they replaced. The current puppet government run by Unocal oilman Kurzei won’t survive the removal of the US military presence.
7. Citizen rights abused: Other than unconstitutional legislation that was raced through Congress with nary a glance, more than a thousand citizens and residents were held incommunicado without evidence or charges immediately after 9-11, some are still being held. One story goes that a man arrested immediately following the events was held without communication with family or attorney for 5 months without charges. He was released without an apology, compensation, nothing. He was simply told that they were looking for someone else with the same name. Jose Padilla, a citizen, is still being held without charges or communication. The Bush administration first claimed he was being held for suspicion of attempting to build a dirty bomb, but later admitted they had no such evidence. This accusation is totally idiotic. No country, even the US, has been able to successfully build a dirty bomb. The radiation necessary to do any appreciable damage after dispersion would quickly kill anyone trying to make or transport one. Does anyone think that these unconstitutional incarcerations make you personally safer, and that you’ll never be plucked off the street or your couch with no warrant, no evidence, and no charges? Maybe not, but then again…
8. Our Israeli ally: Lavon affair. U.S.S. Liberty. Framing of Libya for Disco bombing. Ostrovsky. Mossad. Pollard. Israeli spy ring. Israeli “art students”. Israeli moving company. Sorry, too much to say here and I’m tired. These should be helpful search phrases if you are interested. I don’t want to be called “anti-Semitic” for laying out too much damning info here. Oh…too late.
I could go on, but I don’t want to overload anyone with any more “conspiracy theories.” Of course, the official 9-11 story is a “Muslim Fundamentalist” conspiracy theory. As is the Bush administrations current justification for the War Without End for OIL. For those who think that Bush is restraining himself because he doesn’t want war, hah! It’s just that he hasn’t found a manufactured justification that can convince the world or the majority of the American people. He needs something really big, expect it soon!
But the US would not manufacture justifications for war! Would they?
Spanish American War – boiler fire cooking of ammunition causing an explosion in the U.S.S. Maine.
World War I – Lucetania: Suppression of German warnings to passengers in US newspapers, transport of ammunition for Germany’s enemies, separation from escort, route through known dangerous territory.
World War II – Failed attempt to provoke Germany into attack during naval intervention in aid of Britain. Pearl Harbor: provocation of Japan including embargoes, suppression of intelligence from Pearl Harbor command.
Communist Cuba – Operation Northwoods: Joint Chiefs’ plan to fake attacks on US civilians and military to justify attacking Castro’s Cuba after the Bay of Pigs failure. Rejected by JFK.
Vietnam – Non-existent Tonkin Gulf incident.
Gulf War I – Attacked Iraq after telling Saddam that this local matter was not our concern.
“War on Terror”: Afghanistan – 09-11-2001. Admitted lack of evidence used to justify a war that had already been in the works scheduled for October of that year. Originally denied any prior knowledge, but then admitted “vague” warnings (yes they did). Several foreign intelligence services had given detailed warnings and several administration officials had ceased commercial airline flights during month prior to incident (look it up).
Think for yourself, question authority – Dr. Timothy Leary
Posted by Keith @ 11/18/2002 02:56 AM PST
I've just read some of you dumb Bushie followers comments....The guy's a clown, and his puppeteers have at least managed to get control of your single-cell brains...Dumb morons....you guys have a tcking time-bomb for a government, and it's only a matter of time you blow the world to smithereens (and that includes yourselves!!!)
Posted by Dave (south africa) @ 11/18/2002 02:44 AM PST
Proof right here that Shaun Penn is just another stupid DEMOCRAT. Yes, lets all just wait to see that ISLAMIC JIHADISTS (notice I pinpointed our enemy and didn't gloss them over as terrorists) or Hussein do have the weapons of mass destruction and the means of using them before we try to stop them. BOOM! Dang I didn't see that coming, it was the Presidents fault! We just didn't want to racially profile, because it might have hurt their feelings. He knew it all along! Why didn't he do anything? Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
THAT IS WHY THEY ARE KILLING US! We live in a world that has become pansies under democratic rule because they are too PC to do anything. I applaud Bush for taking such bold steps to clean house and get democratic scumbags out of office. Time for a fresh start!
What is Penn saying that he Kennedy administration was so much better than Bush? Talk about crooked politicians when it comes to the Kennedy's (scumbags of the earth). Stupid democrats, they'll never lean.
If you don't know what is really going on, listen to Neal Boortz (www.boortz.com). At least this guy tells it pretty much like it is instead of telling you want you want to hear.
Posted by blown0690 @ 11/18/2002 01:56 AM PST
if u looked at america, no doubt that you would find many more "weapons of mass destruction". and yet bush complains when he decides that another country may have weapons too. anyone else see where im going?
Posted by J @ 11/18/2002 12:27 AM PST
By the Way, Shilo, one question for you. All your talk of Gulf War Syndrome, I have an answer for that, something that not a damned person in the media will let out, want to guess why?
Because it's been quashed time and time again.
During the Gulf War, Pepsi Co. Gave to the army personell there an undisclosed amount of Diet Pepsi, FREE for anyone who wanted it.
Because it tastes better than water, over 90% of the military personell drank the pepsi, why? Because it was free.
Where was the Pepsi stored? In tents in the heat. This is the cause of Gulf War Syndrome.
Bullshit you say? Allow me to expound further.
Diet Pepsi contains sacharin (Spelling?), it also read "Do not store in temperatures exceeding 100 degrees Farenhight. Average stored Pepsi temperature? 105-110 degrees.
Sacharine when exposed to this heat breaks down to it's components, which are toxic to the human body when ingested. The drinking of Diet Pepsi caused the medical problems that we are seeing in gulf war vets. Why was this information not released to everyone who was drinking the Diet Pepsi?
Liberal Media likes to point fingers at the people they consider enemies. They don't consider Pepsi an enemy.
Duncan
Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 11:31 PM PST
Thanks for the support John, I'm glad to know that there are more people out there than myself who think for ourselves and don't let the democratic party lead us around by our balls.
Anyone watch the news of late?
The HEAD of the UN Investigators point blank said that minor infarctions of what Iraq says they will not bother to report and will simply ignore. Exactly how minor will those be? Nuclear? Biological? Chemical? What? Someone, please tell me why when the USA and other countries have all stated that they want a zero-tolerance policy to be in effect, why we have to put up with a head investigator saying he will ignore things?
Doesn't that destroy his credibility on what he's doing? Doesn't that mean that he isn't doing his job?
Meanwhile he is doing all this at UN orders, the world waits on baited breath to hear what Saddam is doing in his country, and what the UN will do because of it.
Personally, I suspect that the UN will once again prove worthless, an overly large politicaly inept body incapable of doing much beyond puffing up it's own ego. The UN is a failure, it's becoming just like the "World" government that was around before the Second World War. Anyone ever heard of the League of Nations? It failed once and we gave it a second shot.
It's failing a second time and people still cling to it being somewhat important and useful.
Sadly, such is no longer the case.
To Bush I say this, Ignore the UN, it has proven to be powerless, and inept. The countries that back it's agendas are primarily our allies who look to us before they look to what the UN says. What country is the only truly remaining "Super Power"? It's not Russia, it's the USA. Grab your boot straps, cinch up the belt, and give the UN the finger. Without America the UN is impotent.
Time to start calling in all the old debts that the world at large owes us. Britain? They owe us large amounts of money from the Second World War and before, Japan? We made their economy. Russia? World War Two Lend Lease program. France, Germany, Italy, all of them owe the US of A money.
Call in the favors, call in the debts, and let's watch the rest of the world scramble to appease the America who they always turn to for aid.
If other countries don't wish our aid, then they need to stop begging us to help them when burning us in the media. If you don't like our country, fine, move the hell out. We are tired of defeatism coming from the liberals and the unamerican democrats.
Welcome to reality Ladies and Gents, there is no conspiracy, there is no harsh jewish secret government, there is only the truth. And the truth can be quoted from Yamamoto during World War Two.
"I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant, and it will devour us."
Wake up, America for the Americans, and damn the rest.
Duncan
Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 11:20 PM PST
No matter what war is gonna happen, bush has already attacked afghanistan, on his way to attacking iraq, after iraq who knows its like a game of Risk slowly he will get different countries in the world until he's ready to control it
Posted by Bob @ 11/17/2002 10:30 PM PST
Do any of you really think that anyone in the United States is delighted at the prospect of going to war with Iraq. I think that George W. Bush realizes that a war with Iraq will harm his popularity rating with a large portion of the American public, but I think that is grossly outweighed by his concern for the citizens of this nation. Have you already forgotten that horrible day in September when the United States was changed forever. If I recall correctly, President Bush was praised for his reaction to the Al Queda attacks. He was given entheusiastic support from the vast majority of America. However, it was only a matter of time before the left wing, Democratic party started resorting to its deceptive (and in my opinion unAmerican) tactics. Representative Cynthia McKinney even went so far as to accuse the President of having previous knowledge of the attack beforehand and doing nothing to prevent it. I do recall the report that went unnoticed on a White House desk that "could have prevented all of this," but I believe that President Bush has been forced into taking action against any nation or terrorist organization who threatens our freedom-- unless he wants to risk a potential Congressional hearing or-- if the Democratic Party would have its way-- impeachment.
As for the media's attemps at reporting accurately and its alleged "pro-war agenda," I don't think now, nor have I ever thought, that the media serves the best interest of the American public. It's so quick to report anything it knows as being fact, and often going so far as to say that it's the "whole truth." The fact is that the media only knows a limited amount of what the government knows. The fact is that the media feels its role is to provide America with a non-bias view of current issues. Unfortunately, they neglect to add a disclaimer at the beginning of their broadcast saying that their own personal agenda will be strongly reflected. The President's administration was cricticized harshly recently for waiting to release information of North Korea's development of nuclear weapons. Would an earlier release of this information have benefitted anyone watching the news? I don't think so. The only "problem" was that the Executive branch failed to let the media bloodhounds in on a secret. The media is lying to America when it tries to persuade it one way or another because nine times out of ten, it is underinformed. The President and Congress have national security briefings every day that are classified, and they have them for a reason-- they are the people we've entrusted to make our decisions for us. They are better informed than the media and better informed than any of us are on the situations at hand. I yield to the President and his administration's decision on this dilema, and I think that more Americans should trust in his ability to make it.
The President is not making "phychotic actions" as stated in a post below. He is working hard night and day to try to prevent another catastrophe from striking America. I hope that the President can avoid a war in this situation-- I don't like seeing lives lost whether they be us, them, military, or civilian. All of you who don't want war and who think that inspectors and negotiations are the only method to prevent Iraq's build-up of power need to take a look at what that did in North Korea and recall the announcement I alluded to earlier. Killing people may not be the answer to all of our problems, but we better do more than just send in a bunch of UN delegates and think that will stop the mounting threat in the Middle East.
Posted by Poster @ 11/17/2002 09:30 PM PST
Just have to say Duncan, thank you, maybe there is hope for us yet. Liberals are so out of touch with history and act like everything is happening for the first time ever, and everything is so upsetting. Read a goddamn history book all you whiny liberals. You act like Bush is on his own crusade for himself, which is stupid if you actually think that, and that he is some kind of dictator in America that has absolute power. Any president bush or not would see the threat that iraq creates to the world. The threat has been there sense the Clinton era, just like the terrorist threat was there. Clinton did not have the balls to do anything about it, why? Because he knew many people would get angry over it, and lower his popularity to put it short, he did not care about the Americans that were murdered by terrorist, only his own angenda. I'm glad we have a president that actually has values, and balls to not care about looking good on T.V and making everyone love him. He will get things done, weither the out of touch and no sense of history liberals whine thier hearts out or not.
Posted by John @ 11/17/2002 09:29 PM PST
I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.
The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
The facts:
1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.
4. To further punish Hussein,he
5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
According to our own intelligence
On the other hand,
Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
I leave you with these words:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 09:00 PM PST
I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.
The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
The facts:
1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.
4. To further punish Hussein,he
5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
According to our own intelligence
On the other hand,
Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
I leave you with these words:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 08:59 PM PST
I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.
The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
The facts:
1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.
4. To further punish Hussein,he
5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
According to our own intelligence
On the other hand,
Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
I leave you with these words:
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 08:57 PM PST
I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.
The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
The facts:
1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd |