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11/14/2002 Entry: "Sean Penn's open letter to Pres. Bush"

From what I heard Sean Penn paid $56,000 for this ad to be posted in the Washington Post. The media has paid very little attention to it, because it doesn't serve the President's agenda. Pass it to others...

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Sean Penn's Open Letter to George W. Bush

Nov. 3, 2002

An Open Letter to the President of the United States of America

Mr. Bush:

Good morning sir. Like you, I am a father and an American. Like you, I consider myself a patriot. Like you, I was horrified by the events of this past year, concerned for my family and my country. However, I do not believe in a simplistic and inflammatory view of good and evil. I believe this is a big world full of men, women, and children who struggle to eat, to love, to work, to protect their families, their beliefs, and their dreams. My father, like yours, was decorated for service in World War II. He raised me with a deep belief in Constitution and the Bill of Rights, as they should apply to all Americans who would sacrifice to maintain them and to all human beings as a matter of principle.

Many of your actions to date and those proposed seem to violate every defining principle of this country over which you preside: intolerance of debate ("with us or against us"), marginalization of your critics, the promoting of fear through unsubstantiated rhetoric, manipulation of a quick comfort media, and position of your administration's deconstruction of civil liberties all contradict the very core of the patriotism you claim. You lead, it seems, through a blood-lined sense of entitlement. Take a close look at your most vehement media supporters.

See the fear in their eyes as their loud voices of support ring out with that historically disastrous undercurrent of rage and panic masked as "straight tough talk." How far have we come from understanding what it is to kill one man, one woman, or one child, much less the "collateral damage" of many hundreds of thousands. Your use of the words, "this is a new kind of war" is often accompanied by an odd smile. It concerns me that what you are asking of us is to abandon all previous lessons of history in favor of following you blindly into the future. It worries me because with all your best intentions, an enormous economic surplus has been squandered. Your administration has virtually dismissed the most fundamental environmental concerns and therefore, by implication, one gets the message that, as you seem to be willing to sacrifice the children of the world, would you also be willing to sacrifice ours. I know this cannot be your aim so, I beg you Mr. President, listen to Gershwin, read chapters of Stegner, of Saroyan, the speeches of Martin Luther King. Remind yourself of America. Remember the Iraqi children, our children, and your own.

There can be no justification for the actions of Al Qaeda. Nor acceptance of the criminal viciousness of the tyrant, Saddam Hussein.

Yet, that bombing is answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing by killing, is a pattern that only a great country like ours can stop. However, principles cannot be recklessly or greedily abandoned in the guise of preserving them.

Avoiding war while accomplishing national security is no simple task. But you will recall that we Americans had a little missile problem down in Cuba once. Mr.Kennedy's restraint (and that of the nuclear submarine captain, Arkhipov) is to be aspired to. Weapons of mass destruction are clearly a threat to the entire world in any hands. But as Americans, we must ask ourselves, since the potential for Mr. Hussein to possess them threatens not only our country, (and in fact, his technology to launch is likely not yet at that high a level of sophistication) therefore, many in his own region would have the greatest cause for concern. Why then, is the United States, as led by your administration, in the small minority of the world nations predisposed toward a preemptive military assault on Iraq? Simply put, sir, let us re-introduce inspection teams, inhibiting offensive capability. We buy time, maintain our principles here and abroad and demand of ourselves the ingenuity to be the strongest diplomatic muscle on the planet, perhaps in the history of the planet. The answers will come. You are a man of faith, but your saber is rattling the faith of many Americans in you.

I do understand what a tremendously daunting task it must be to stand in your shoes at this moment. As a father of two young children who will live their lives in the world as it will be affected by critical choices today, I have no choice but to believe that you can ultimately stand as a great president. History has offered you such a destiny. So again, sir, I beg you, help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror. Don't destroy our children's future. We will support you. You must support us, your fellow Americans, and indeed, mankind.

Defend us from fundamentalism abroad but don't turn a blind eye to the fundamentalism of a diminished citizenry through loss of civil liberties, of dangerously heightened presidential autonomy through acts of Congress, and of this country's mistaken and pervasive belief that its "manifest destiny" is to police the world. We know that Americans are frightened and angry. However, sacrificing American soldiers or innocent civilians in an unprecedented preemptive attack on a separate sovereign nation, may well prove itself a most temporary medicine. On the other hand, should you mine and have faith in the best of the country to support your leadership in representing a strong, thoughtful, and educated United States, you may well triumph for the long haul. Lead us there, Mr. President, and we will stand with you.

Sincerely,

Sean Penn

San Francisco, California

Replies: 319 people with an opinion

WOW .. GO SEAN U R AWESOME :)

YO BUSH GO OVER SEAN`S LETTER :p

Posted by Jane @ 12/07/2002 12:50 PM PST

Hello. It's me again.
I'll take it from the top.

Beginning the third world war is the most illogical, most idiotic, and, from a capitalist's standpoint, the most unprofitable idea on the face of the planet. One would agree that, in the event of launching all nuclear warheads on the earth at some point target, it would be the end of the world as we know it. And that's true, any way you look at it. So why exactly would someone who has a job because he can help provide pork money through the government, because he can lead the country for four years (maybe more), and because he has been endlessly entrusted with the safety of 280 million people want to end the world? Where's the logic behind this? Why would he intentionally (or even accidentally) destroy all mankind? For fun? :) Have we been listening to Black Sabbath and reading worthless religious predictions lately?
Besides, there have been much worse people morally that has had this kind of control, and had very similar alibies (namely other US presidents of the past, Soviet leaders, and many other people even before the Cold War era). Why hasn't the world ended yet? Anybody?

I also can't stand it when people don't provide evidence for facts that haven't been proven. Where are these undeniable bits and pieces of evidence that you people tell us about how harsh life for Camp X-Ray prisoners is? Where are these age old societies that secretly control the entire planet at their whim? Just where is this slave trade that only two people seem to know about? Where can I find this ever-so-secret UFO lab that autopsy the strange aliens from outer space and use their technology to further their world domination cause? And, most importantly, why are YOU the only person that knows all this? Why are you special? Did you actually SEE any of this stuff? Do you actually know about all this conspiracy? Or, did you just believe the first thing you heard from someone famous? Pick an intellectual poison.

Seriously though. I would give up this whole argument to see recordings of the Illuminati meetings. I would love to get a glimpse of the anarchist meetings that changed the word "riot" to "spreading the truth." Hell, I would give it all up just to see ANYTHING that you're stating is true. I want to see these Verichips. I want to see these smallpox vaccines (Ill even take one, thank you). I would be more than happy to unfold the "truth" about Bush's magical plot to reform the government into a monarchy (or despotism, whichever), just so he can destroy everybody that he personally hates (if you believe he can do that, then you have no idea how America works).

I've gone on too long. If you're still reading this (and NOT typing a hateful response), then please listen: We really are in a time of war, a time of fear, panic, and misunderstanding. I know that you are still trying to pull out some proof from the rubble of confusion. The thing is, you, yes YOU, know in your heart, soul, whatever, that which really is true. What it is, I can't say. I celebrate the individual, and that means I don't know what you are thinking, I only know what I am thinking. By that, I can say that whatever is said by someone you don't know, is most likely not the truth until they can prove it, and most of them never will. They, meaning the people who give you false pretenses, will show you that their way eventually benefits you, because its truth, which can be proven. But then, they expose the fact that they only want something for themself (for people today, that thing tends to be fame or the ability to be recognized), and you're not included anywhere. Sometimes, he/she just used you to get to that something. If you need an example, say something.

My point is this: you know you're right, until you can prove it wrong. Don't go believing someone that promises something extraordinary, simply because they're chrismatic, or type in big bold lettering. Search for the truth yourself, only then will you know that it is really true or not. If you're religious, good for you. Believe what you know, and you'll be fine.

Okay, enough of that. I'll type back later.

Posted by DeadSky @ 12/02/2002 11:57 PM PST

i mean 3rd world war below :) my bad

Posted by Anon @ 11/28/2002 02:10 PM PST

Ok. Some people are really stupid. Our stupid president is TRYING to start the 4th world war. If a world war DOES HAPPEN to start, itll be the end of the world. Every country has nuclear weapons, it'll be a massive slaughter of all people. It seems like thats what bush wants. He isnt just bringing America down, hes bringing the whole world with him

Posted by Anon @ 11/28/2002 02:06 PM PST

America is doing something about the WAR against our country so that must make Bush bad. I guess you people would just sit on the couch and whine while lunatics slaughter your family?
Puh-lease. You people are such hypocrits. Go serve in the armed forces and then spout your mouth off.
While I have nothing against the Iraqi people, I fully support a pre-emptive strike to get rid of a madman and his sadistic sons who have terrorized, raped, killed and stolen from their own countrymen.
The U.N. is a farce and we should take a stand and protect U.S. interests and citizens.

Posted by Sick of you whiny, would be intellectuals @ 11/27/2002 11:09 PM PST

bush is a monkey. iraq isnt the only place with nuclear weapons, the whole world has them. bush just is a racist ass!!

Posted by anon @ 11/27/2002 04:38 PM PST

Well first of all Islam was not stopped by the west internal struggles forced it to retreat, secondly caesar existed in around 50 B.C. western roman empire collapsed in around 400 A.D.

But Sean Penn is right, being a Canadian, i value our constitutional freedoms greatly and as we have seen from Bush's actions whereby prisoners are not given full rights as POWs and amongst other human rights violations. Bush is nothing more than a trigger happy lunatic, that will probably bring down the united states as well as the rest of the world and cause a giant economic recession, the american economy slowdown. Bush has yet to even outline his plan for an attack in Iraq and has not provided an estimate for the price, his recklessness in spending will deplete the american treasury, causing the government to go into further debt and without the money needed to spend the country out of recession.

This jackass of a president should really think before he acts

Posted by Brian @ 11/26/2002 06:04 PM PST

Please. We do have a history lesson we can follow! In World War II, nations stood by while a dictator massacred his own populance, and invaded his neighbors. Finally, after talks and more talks, this nation blatantly violated rule after rule that the international community wrote up, and World War II started.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have several similarities here, between post-WWI Germany and post-gulf war Iraq.

Because of ninny politicians, the Republican Guard was not destroyed. (about 100,000 troops... the irony is that Germany was only allowed 100,000 troops according the Versailles Treaty.) During that time, Germany was not seen as a threat; it was disarmed, in an economic slump, owed zillions to foreign nations. Leadership in disarray. Hmm... sounds like Iraq.

How toothless is Iraq? Should we wait until Iraq has invaded ANOTHER nation? Has used chemical/biological weapons of mass destruction? Has developed even an atomic bomb? Hmm?

As history has proven; we don't create weapons to just put them on display. We WILL use them.

Another history lesson. Vietnam. Once again, a peaceful solution was wanting to be found. North Vietnam NEVER had any intentions of a "peaceful solution." This has been proven, time and again in her actions. Only through VIOLENCE did North Vietnam respond. Everyone remembers the effects of Operation LineBacker. Everyone agrees that it was that campaign that brought North Vietnam back to the bargaining table.

Believe it or not ladies and gentlemen, VIOLENCE is what madmen like Hitler, Ho Chi Minh, and Saddam respond to. Not this sissy, ninny international laws.

Posted by GCariaga @ 11/26/2002 06:03 PM PST

Bush is evil. War is evil. There has to be a better idea then what this idiot is saying. The only way for peace is war? Our children are going to be left with this mess. Let's hope the next generation is wiser, stronger and can learn from past mistakes. Sean Penn is on the right track but I fear no one is listening.

Posted by Sweet Lips @ 11/26/2002 04:39 PM PST

A little pointer, if Bush's ugly face is put on Mount Rushmore, i guess we'll have no problem finding out the next place terrorist will bomb. I think Sean Penn's face should go there!

Posted by yog @ 11/26/2002 02:47 PM PST

I'm a Canadian and I'll make it simple. Just like the individual from the Canadian government saod, "Bush is a moron!" America is the center of the world right now and people like to judge who's in power. ANd it's simple, the world likes to judge people by their leaders, those who represent them. People look at Bush and look at America. I'm sure you Americans are not crazy assclowns like Bush. Some say he's intelligent, so Hitler was intelligent, did that make him a good guy, no! My parents, grandparents, and relatives have lived all over the world and have always repected Ameerica. Hell, my parents lived a good 6 years in beautiful SanDiego, however, much like the majority of the world, they do not respect Bush. It is a common belief that Bush has ruined the legacy of great Presidents. In summary, I like most respect Americans and care for them as my neighbours. What happens with America effects the whole world, that is how important America is and having Bush flip a coin on these decisions, doesn't just efect him or America, or Noth America, but the whole world. I'm sure some will disagree, some will agree, some will respond with history lessons, or tell me i must be a low educated foool or brainwashed, and so on, but hey it's the truth that what happens to America effects the world. Finally, i would like to mention something i felt was offensive by Bush. When he declared Iran as a top terrorist country, he should of mentioned their government are the bad guys. WHen he was at the olympics he stood and clapped for all countries,cept Iran. I sat and stared, wtf, those iranian athletes did nothing to Bush, they just living their lives and probably respect Americans more than their government. That prooves Bush doesn't care about innocent people. I also admire all the people like Mr. Penn who stand up against these causes and there should be more, cause the longer we wait with problems like Bush, the worst they get. Thx for reading and I'm sure those who disagree will have some interesting/hateful comments.

Have a nice day,
from the guy who wouldn't stop typing :)

Posted by Your neighbour @ 11/26/2002 02:40 PM PST

I'm a Canadian and I'll make it simple. Just like the individual from the Canadian government saod, "Bush is a moron!" America is the center of the world right now and people like to judge who's in power. ANd it's simple, the world likes to judge people by their leaders, those who represent them. People look at Bush and look at America. I'm sure you Americans are not crazy assclowns like Bush. Some say he's intelligent, so Hitler was intelligent, did that make him a good guy, no! My parents, grandparents, and relatives have lived all over the world and have always repected Ameerica. Hell, my parents lived a good 6 years in beautiful SanDiego, however, much like the majority of the world, they do not respect Bush. It is a common belief that Bush has ruined the legacy of great Presidents. In summary, I like most respect Americans and care for them as my neighbours. What happens with America effects the whole world, that is how important America is and having Bush flip a coin on these decisions, doesn't just efect him or America, or Noth America, but the whole world. I'm sure some will disagree, some will agree, some will respond with history lessons, or tell me i must be a low educated foool or brainwashed, and so on, but hey it's the truth that what happens to America effects the world. Finally, i would like to mention something i felt was offensive by Bush. When he declared Iran as a top terrorist country, he should of mentioned their government are the bad guys. WHen he was at the olympics he stood and clapped for all countries,cept Iran. I sat and stared, wtf, those iranian athletes did nothing to Bush, they just living their lives and probably respect Americans more than their government. That prooves Bush doesn't care about innocent people. I also admire all the people like Mr. Penn who stand up against these causes and there should be more, cause the longer we wait with problems like Bush, the worst they get. Thx for reading and I'm sure those who disagree will have some interesting/hateful comments.

Have a nice day,
from the guy who wouldn't stop typing :)

Posted by Your neighbour @ 11/26/2002 02:39 PM PST

I have no strong opinion about the situation with Iraq. However I agree that Bush is a menace, even if just because he is so ignorant. I guess noone realizes our president has a learning ability. It's true. But it is also true that the terrorists come from these Middle Eastern nations such a Iraq and so on some points I agree with him (or his ghost-written speeches at least.) The fundamentalist rulers of these nations support terrorism, mostly with money they get by charging America rising amounts for oil. If America doesn't get these people I hope the U.N. lets Israel have it's way with the scum. Let the guilty be purged and the innocent saved!

Posted by Xardioso @ 11/26/2002 10:27 AM PST

All I have to say on the subject is, If Bush wants Saddam to be killed, Let him do it himself instead of sending an innocent kid over there. Or let him send his daughters. Otherwise live and let live.

Posted by John C @ 11/26/2002 10:16 AM PST

All I have to say on the subject is, If Bush wants Saddam to be killed, Let him do it himself instead of sending an innocent kid over there. Or let him send his daughters. Otherwise live and let live.

Posted by John C @ 11/26/2002 10:15 AM PST

Dear Mr. Penn, Your letter is not just addressed to president Bush, but to the entire population of the United States of America. What president Bush stated is backed up by our constitution, the declaration of independence as well as the Gettysburg address, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" etc. etc. Almost 70 million Americans back up president Bush because what was attacked and what we are defending is our American culture. I'd rather be dead than to live like them assholes in Al Quaida. Thank you for your time. Now be gone with yourself.

Posted by Dan @ 11/25/2002 11:42 PM PST

Do any of you Pseudo-Intellectuals know how to proof read or use a spell checker?

Posted by Matt @ 11/25/2002 08:18 PM PST

this oustanding artical is not only true but funny as hell to go along with it!!!!!!!!!

Posted by michael emerson @ 11/25/2002 05:17 PM PST

P.S. If Bush wants Sadam Dead so badly I think he should strap a bomb to his chest and give Sadam a big hug and take out two asswholes with one blow if u agree give me a hell ya

Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 11:43 AM PST

I hope bush Burns a firy death in HELL :)Bush is The True Terrioist Dam Texas Bastastard go back to you ranch and stay there. And after he pisses everone off so they attack he will be hiding while we all get bombed thanx for your care of our ecosystem and our LIVES by the way im being sarcastic.Die Die Die how many times can i say Die i got the fbi at the door now there tapin my phones know one disses bush and gets away with it cya later maybe :(

Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 09:42 AM PST

Bush is a ignerent fool he knows nothing about politics he has his speeches written for him and which he screws them up ever chance he gets I myself think hes a bigger threat to this country then sadam i agree with sean penn's speech bush is retarded he goes running around pissing off ever one he can if your gonna have a war dont go pissing everone off so they join against you anyone who voted for bush im hope your happy are econmy is a pile of shit now

Posted by Csnipe @ 11/25/2002 09:30 AM PST

I Think his letter is the Fact and all of ya slanderin' this letter; are lost, already brainwashed by the Tyrant G.W.B .Bush is difinitly on the tripp of policing the world."good & Evil" what is that bush!, he sez it like America,its allies - good , Saddam,Al qaeda - Evil! is what u hear! But when in fact his intention is America,Me - Good ,Iraq,afgahnistan,ETC - Evil!He dosent want peace & Justice! He wants pain and sufferin amongst those countries in question! Probably even has a plan for world domination you never know America! I believe seans letter. If bush didnt read it, an take any of it into consideration he will surely lose his people! Unless u yanks believe everything u see on telly!
P.S What about America's "Weopons of MASS DESTRUCTION" to be honest, i live in New Zealand and i am more shaken by the thought of Your Government MASS DESTROYING, which in a sense are already doing, bombing the shit out of innocent iraqi's an afgahni's. Ive been 2 the states an besides the violence i saw, i think the country is great, people are bloody friendly, an the girls....well the girls ;)But the government at the moment is not one u can trust!
BUSH STOP IMPOSING

Posted by Kanaspa @ 11/24/2002 07:32 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:14 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:13 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states army and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:12 PM PST

Your letter wasn't even read by any body in the white house, it was so stupid they probably read the first paragraph and threw up on it and burned it. Why would you waste your time, do you think you can make a change writing a short mindless letter.I wish the united states anmy and marines whould have the pleasure to read this letter.I wish you well, and my god have mercy on your soul.

Posted by chad @ 11/24/2002 05:12 PM PST

ok so what he is saying is to leave iraq alone? so he can try to take over another country? so he can mustard gas his own people again? or so he can continue to violate UN laws again? so he can continue to shoot and UN planes? for over 10years iraq has violated laws of the world. inocent will most likey die in a war. but the main fact is that many more will be saved and have a brighter future if sadam is removed. and that is a sure fact. and if you dont think so.. go live there

Posted by humadh @ 11/24/2002 02:12 PM PST

would you pussies want to keep the peace with the same guy that raped your mother or your sister, or would you hunt his ass and take out his throat? wtf?

Posted by Denizen @ 11/24/2002 11:27 AM PST

would you pussies want to keep with the same guy that raped your mother or your sister, or would you hunt his ass and take out his throat? wtf?

Posted by Denizen @ 11/24/2002 11:27 AM PST

To disarm with force? Funny how that sounds... To bomb a country with women and children, isn't that the same thing Iraq is doing...?

Posted by Incursion~ @ 11/24/2002 10:58 AM PST

Maybe Sean should stick to something he knows. Like...let's see. He couldnt hang on to the hottest chick on the planet. His acting is mediocre. He exibits his ignorance of the reality of politics. What's that leave?

Posted by curt @ 11/24/2002 06:26 AM PST

Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Course i think ol' Bush is a total Wanker and would prob say it to him had i the chance :) no offence to any Bushy Boy fans! :p

Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:56 AM PST

Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Course i think ol' Bush is a total Wanker and would prob say it to him had i the chance :) no offence to any Bushy Boy fans! :p

Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:55 AM PST

Nice letter Sean, YOU'RE DA MAN!!!
Course i think ol' Bush is a total Wanker and would prob say it to him had i the chance :) no offence to any Bushy Boy fans! :p

Posted by Daniel (Daalty) @ 11/24/2002 01:54 AM PST

sean penn needs to go to history class. SEAN PENN IS AN IDIOT!

Posted by DAVID KOVELDA @ 11/23/2002 10:41 PM PST

Liberals are full of useless humanist bullshit. Democrats are republicans who lie more. And republicans are neo-nazis. "America's good to the world?" Nostalgic cliches, tied to cliches. Let's go to Iraq. Let's allow Bush Co. (all rights reserved) to go ahead and invade countries that pose possibilities of a possibility of a threat. Let's make the entire world to hate America's fascist neo-colonial empire. And let's make them react, attack us, kill our own civilians the way America does to them. Because it is the only way to really rid the world of America as the empire supreme, the superpower. The replacement will be a fascist fundamentalist empire, or perhaps China. The world is in the hands of the people. If you choose to be silent against the actions of America, then you are not innocent- you are on the side of chaos and American violence. And you are an acceptable enemy, choosing to be a target for terrorists. The time is now to stand up and say that we want rid of corporate America. America has already destroyed all discussion: "You're either with us, or against us." Well, I'm against you, Hitler-reincarnate. Send me your hate mail

Posted by Ekrem S @ 11/23/2002 03:27 PM PST

By the way, Duncan. You use the Romans constanly as an example, too bad they were wiped out due to a cezar who made the wrong choises at the wrong time, so maybe you should think about your compairison for a while, because the US might be going down the same path as Rome.

Posted by The Minnow @ 11/23/2002 01:38 AM PST

I am commenting on Gi Joe(11/21/02), who calls all the anti-war people ingorant fools, and thretens to bomb us next...Just think of the dumbass who would just as soon bomb the shit out of you that see you, then you see what our world is coming too.

Posted by Jon @ 11/23/2002 12:12 AM PST

Every 300 to 500 years, Islam rises up to destroy other cultures, take them over, and make them believe what they do. Last time they performed this little trick, the world stopped them at Vienna's doorstep. (Remember history?)
We have 20 "Islamic" governments who make and keep billions of dollars for themselves....while at the same time keeping their people living in the 5th Century....while blaming the whole self-imposed mess on "The West".

Time, I'd say, to clean house once again.

Marc Robinson

Posted by Marc Robinson @ 11/22/2002 07:53 AM PST

wow...from san francisco even. me too. um....

i didn't read the whole letter you wrote, cause i have ADD and i can't focus for that long, but i like the beggining.

i myself have written a propaganda page on my website. http://www.com3designs.com

Posted by theFixer @ 11/22/2002 07:34 AM PST

i'm a pretty kitty,
i'm a pretty kitty,
i'm a pretty kitty,
i'm a pretty kitty,
(While Rolling down Stairs)

Posted by Nate V @ 11/22/2002 06:22 AM PST

he is right, i normally don't give a piss or fart about what famous people say, but in that one letter he said what i've been thinking for a long time, oh and all you people who say he's wrong and that he doesn't know sh*t about what hes sayin, i have one question for you, have you shaved off any of your wool latly? i need new socks.

Posted by dinger @ 11/22/2002 03:41 AM PST

he is right, i normally don't give a piss or fart about what famous people say, but in that one letter he said what i've been thinking for a long time, oh and all you people who say he's wrong and that he doesn't know sh*t about what hes sayin, i have one question for you, have you shaved off any of your wool latly? i need new socks.

Posted by dinger @ 11/22/2002 03:40 AM PST

Plain and simple, America has the right to defend itself against terrorist and terrorist supporting nations, Iraq will get bomber to ensure safety of American citizens, and acourse the prosperity of americans(Terroism bad for econ, War good for econ). Iraq supports terrorist so were going after them. Sure there is a million other bull shit reasons you can come up with, some new world order crap, oil-(only fucking reason we havn't blown them all to hell yet), what ever bull shit your paranoid mind thinks of. I'm glad to live in a country where people have the right to talk so down about the people protecting them. I really think though our country should stop being a charity for the rest of the world. Giving hand outs to everyone, and getting pissed on in return. I don't give a fuck about the rest of the world, let them fend for themselfs, America should take care of itself, and fuck all political bull shit. No other country seems to appretiate a god damn thing America has done, which is funny, cause the only reason we are on such forums right now is because of american inventions. Go to hell you greesy back water nation beaners. Im ranting, and one more thing, stfu all you liberal scum claiming bush is some dictator. Learn how the american goverment works, Bush does not have absolute power
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=29704

Posted by Whatever @ 11/21/2002 09:47 PM PST

You are mistaken to believe the world can function as a whole. People cannot be governed on such a grand scale, it's simply impossible. Saddam must be brought down, but the only way it will happen is by war. If this had been settled before he grew so powerful then this problem would have been avoided, but as is there's no way he will be removed from power except through war or assassination.

Next, marijuana could easily cause harm to another person by you smoking it. Taking any kind of drug like that affects your judgement and distorts your sense or reality. If you were to get behind the wheel of a car it would be very easy for you to harm another person. Also, if you're smoking around a person that doesn't do marijuana then you are damaging them. Don't come back with that crap that it doesn't hurt you at all, because it does slow down your brain cells and over time can really mess you up, and that's been scientifically proven.

As always, I'll be waiting for any further comments from the masses.

Posted by Graham @ 11/21/2002 09:08 PM PST

I am very good with people:talking with them, partying with them, and relating to issues of all sorts. The topic of war has come up many times, and I cannot agree with almost any suggestions that I have heard. I for one agree that Sadaam must fall, and that we should bring him down, but that is only beacause no one else will. It is through the faults of the world that he has grown so powerful, and the world must come together and act as one to stop him and any further people (or groups) from attaining such evil.
I feel the only way to ensure the stability of mankind for several generations to come, is to bring together the world as a whole. We must learn how to interact with one another, how to understand the REAL problems of the world: sickness, hunger, plauges, enviromental damge and government coverups. These all take their respect toll on the world, and one will surely decimate the population. Music, marijauna, family gatherings, all types of recreation all put people at ease at the expense of no one else. Death and destruction does. Please respond if you have any thoughts.
I love this country and this planet and all that it can do for me, I hope to see it all before my time is up.

Posted by Yarmo @ 11/21/2002 08:02 PM PST

I am a soldier... war keeps me employed... shut the fuck up.. or we bomb you next.

Posted by Gi Joe @ 11/21/2002 07:29 PM PST

I am a soldier... war keeps me employed... shut the fuck up.. or we bomb you next.

Posted by Gi Joe @ 11/21/2002 07:29 PM PST

I have read several coments posted on this article, and I cannot help but respond to the ignorance and stupidity with with the great majority of you have written. The first several posts are evident enough of the gross lack of intelligence found in these people that are degrading to very title of "American." I say this not because I am some blind patriot who follows purely "for love of country," but rather because I grow tired of these false beliefs held so strongly yet voiced so loudly by the most ignorant among us.

First issue: President Bush. This is an intelligent man. Consider, Bush parties through college and passes with very decent grades, and Gore (who claims to have been a straight shooter but was said to love doing drugs as often as he could by his roommate) flunks out of Harvard. But, of course, the liberalized media displays every word fumbling of Bush as a poster to the world saying "I'm nothing more than an oil-tycoon-cow-poke from Texas." Say what you will of his actions, but it cannot be said that he is a stupid man.

Second issue: War with Iraq. War is never a pleasant result to come from one's actions, but there are times when it is a very necessary tool to impliment. I by no means feel this country should act as the "World Police," and I was in no wat pleased by our interference with Israel and Palestine, but this is an issue which is in direct conflict with ourselves. Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, that cannot be denined. Any among you that might say that's still in debate is a fool, and that is a merciful term for them. Iraq is a serious threat to the world, and we are part of this world. It is only a matter of time before Saddam attacks with his weapons of mass destruction. Why does he want them? Not for a defensive maneuver, he wants them as a tactical strike to cripple enemies, which we are possibly the biggest enemy they have. Saddam is not a man to show restraint as most other world leaders. He would take any steps necessary to establish himself as the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world. It is vitally important that we not wait to be attacked before we do anything, because I guarantee any attack coming from them would be as a crippling attack that would severly limit our ability to respond. He would be a fool to not do so. Weapons inspectors are of no use. He constantly stalls them to insure he can move anything incrimanting before they can reach where he is hiding his weapons. This war cannot be avoided unless something is done with Saddam.

Issue 3: Democrats. I hate them. They are nothing more than a corrupt party seeking nothing more than political power and personal gain. Do not respond by saying Republicans are corrupt as well because that would be a true showing of your stupidity. Republicans stand for something and they stick by their beliefs and are unwilling to compromise them. Democrats do whatever it takes to gain the favor of the populus. Liberalism is a good thing, it promotes change, and conservativism is good as well, because it prevents our society as a whole from becoming corrupt. But you cannot say one is good without the other, because that is when chaos reigns. I am not a Republican, and spit at the name of Democrat. The vast majority of Democrats don't even realize what they're saying they stand for by adopting that name, they're merely following the crowd or their parents who mistakingly hold on to their beliefs that Democrats are still the "Party for the common man." Things are not the way they were 20 years ago.

Issue 4: nothing. I'm tired and I don't want carpal-tunnel syndrome. I leave these for you to ponder.

P.S. Rome fell because every nation must fall. No nation maintains world power for too long. It's the pattern of civilization.

Posted by Graham @ 11/21/2002 03:53 PM PST

With or without grease?

Posted by Slippery Slope @ 11/21/2002 02:10 PM PST

osama and bush buttfuck each other

Posted by osama @ 11/21/2002 02:00 PM PST

Well, Frost, you are correct only in that the United Snakes of AmeriKKKa is tyranical. I said that Duncan blames liberals only, not conservatives. BOTH sides are to blame. It's very easy to observe from a distance what is happening to us over here. You say we are puppets on a string, but wait until the Bush Dynasty comes a knock-knock-knockin' at your door. Think not? Denmark now is committing troops to Iraq. Germany seems to be the only NATO member holding out on Herr Bush. Do you think that apathy caused the Vietnam War to end? It was ANGER and SADNESS put together with mobilization. Everybody is an armchair activist until it affects them. So I will continue to call phony liberals and conservatives just that, PHONEY.

AND AGAIN PEOPLE, WILL YOU SUBMIT TO FORCED SMALLPOX VACCINATION AND IMPLANTED MICROCHIPS???????? WOULD YOU MR. FROST and DUNCAN?

Posted by Time Step @ 11/21/2002 08:54 AM PST

Very interesting.
The most of you want to stop violence
and stop that suffering all over the world.
You talk and talk as you were experts, but let me tell you that you don't even know just a bit of what's really goin on, just like me. And look at yourself that's were you have to start.You're disssin' each other and are angry of each other. DUNCAN, TIME STEP: what the fuck is going on ? Don't act like puppets on a string, because that is what they want you to do.
It is so easy to manipulate people as they want to be manipulated. I'm from Austria, Europe, and i don't need a lesson about Hitler or Stalin. It starts in the heads of everyone of us and what we really have to do is to educate our children and take care of them and their way of thinking about the world, or this circle of egoism and of all the other things who easily can poison one's mind will never stop. It is not important whether any government call themselves as a tyrannic, it is just about the way they're acting. Also your American government is tyrannic, as their primor goals are economically nature. The USA forces every other state to be similar and live the way America does. you can see very often in the past what happens if foreign countries don't agree and don't accept this lifestyle as their own. globalisation needs to be done because of people and their wealth and not because some rich people can get richer. Don't think just as americans, think as men and women.
Because be sure that politicians don't give a fuck what you think. It doesn't matter where you are from.

Posted by Frost @ 11/21/2002 04:23 AM PST

"The most prosperous nation on earth should be doing far more to help third world countries thus building respect and goodwill and reducing the threat of terrorism"

I hate this comment more than anything else. It isn't my responsibility to pay for some 3rd world countries problems. I am responsible for myself--so fearing for my own life and that of family and loved ones I support pre-active actions against IRAQ. But I still think Bush is decietful and (well this is the biggest insult ever) a "politician". I would like to see some effort put into "global warming" "salmon and other fish populations dieing" etc etc. ...What the U.S. needs is more Statesmen not Politicians.

Posted by Cliff @ 11/21/2002 01:35 AM PST

First of all from my understanding Rome did not fall because of invasion. If internal decay, apathy of the Senatorial class and bad financial management did not lead to a stress of the Roman state, unified Roman armies would be defending against the German sto this day. Little note, Ottoman Empire not till many centures after Rome, Byzantine Empire=eastern roman empire that did not fall. Celts? The celts became Romanized. Augustus Ceaser was the first roman emperor at the empire's height. The parrellel that we CAN draw between Rome and the current state of America is that just like many American citizens now, Romans were ignorant of the decay of the empire because they didn't want to belive it and did nto take the neccesary steps to stop this decay. Far from wanting to conquer the Senate wanted to remember the 'good old day's.

However I agree with the sentiment of most of you. War is a bad thing. That simple statement is the utmost truth. While war can spur an economy or even 'civilize your country(if ripping off older cultures and taking just what you want while not learning how to farm the Tiber river is civilized_, one thing that Romans learned is that if you crap on people while your on top, when your on the way down those people are gunna get you back. For centuries German tribes looked up to Roman sand wanted to be like them, but after a Roman patrictian makes fun of you for wearing pants and eating butter for four hundred years while not giving you any respect or rights. you might sack Rome for the hell of it.

Okay I'm goin gon a tangent here. The point is Mr. Penn's letter was impressivly articulate and educated and represented what I would say is a valid point. I think I'm pretty much agreeing with him because I don't think he's saying that we shouldn't do anything but that Bush is going about it the wrong way. Honestly in this so called' war on terrorism' and such things like taking on Saddam there are things we have to do that won't be nicey nice. We have to draw a line where we defend ourselves without betraying our ideals of democracy, republacanism, liberalism, the contistution, rights of man, etc. Do i have the answers? no. nobody does. We have to figure it out togher brining in all sides. Label that liberal or what you will, but if you belive in America then you better read your history. We broke away from an Empire to form a country based on the rights of the average man (albeit a white property owning man at the time but we've gone beyond that) We built a government KNOWINg people are corrupt and would try to abuse power for their own ends and we thought we had to stop that because everyong had certain rights that souldnt' be violated. If that's not liberal then mabyee I let SUNY suck money from my pocket for no reason. Sorry for the soapbox and if it sucks I dditn' feel like rewritting it and I'm tired. Thank you and take care

Posted by staryrebel @ 11/20/2002 08:03 PM PST

Oops, sorry. I didn't realize that this was one of those comment pages that doubled things accidentally.

Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:22 PM PST

Normally, in a situation like this, I would comment on Mr. Penn's letter, say what I think is true, and what I think is in need for my opinion. However, in the light of the recent comments made by everybody else who has seen this letter (i.e., the 258 comments below it), I feel that it is my obligation to write to you, and throw in my thoughts as well.
First, Rome collapsed because the Senate collapsed by the time Augustus Ceasar took the throne, the army was reduced to having to hire mercenaries just to defend itself, and when Rome didn't pay, they didn't stay. It also collapsed because the Hun, Goths, Celts, and the Byzantine Empire (I think, it was either them or the Ottoman Empire) reconquered the land that Rome had taken, such as present-day Turkey (taken by Byzantine), the Germanic areas, including moern-day Germany, France, and Spain (Huns and Goths), and lost the English island(to the Celts). It also collapsed due to a corrupt, one man despotism (all despotisms are corrupt anyway, if anyone wants me to explain how, just ask). With these reasons, the desire to conquer need not apply.
Next, any man would say that one loves the people but hates the government. However, I am yet to see this take effect. I celebrate the individual, and the way I see it, the government is set in place to satisfy the needs and wants of at least one individual that it represents (otherwise, it wouldn't exist). Those people that it represents best are, obviously, the people that benefit from that government, whatever it may be. It all adds up to the fact that all people hate the government eventually, until you take in the fact that the government itself is run by somebody, then it becomes personal. All the people that don't benefit from it band together to form a group against all those who do, the benefitters come together to protect their priviledges, and things get a little ugly from there. If the benefitters succeed, things don't change; the battle rages on. If the non-benefitters succeed, change in the government takes place, and the tides turn. Those who no longer benefit now attack to get their honor back, and it's those who now benefit that are the defenders. This was human history until republics and democracies were formed, but that's another comment.
And the Hitler comment, yes, he probably would have, until he would have found out how incompetent Hitler was, then he would have seen that he could never benefit from such a one-man power trip. Lord knows Rommel saw that.
I'm kind of bored right now, so I'll finish this later. Others, don't think for a moment that you're safe from my logic; i'll get to you yet. :) Have a good one till then.
Oh, and if the person below me that I based this on feels that I have been unfair, please feel free to rebute.

Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:19 PM PST

Normally, in a situation like this, I would comment on Mr. Penn's letter, say what I think is true, and what I think is in need for my opinion. However, in the light of the recent comments made by everybody else who has seen this letter (i.e., the 258 comments below it), I feel that it is my obligation to write to you, and throw in my thoughts as well.
First, Rome collapsed because the Senate collapsed by the time Augustus Ceasar took the throne, the army was reduced to having to hire mercenaries just to defend itself, and when Rome didn't pay, they didn't stay. It also collapsed because the Hun, Goths, Celts, and the Byzantine Empire (I think, it was either them or the Ottoman Empire) reconquered the land that Rome had taken, such as present-day Turkey (taken by Byzantine), the Germanic areas, including moern-day Germany, France, and Spain (Huns and Goths), and lost the English island(to the Celts). It also collapsed due to a corrupt, one man despotism (all despotisms are corrupt anyway, if anyone wants me to explain how, just ask). With these reasons, the desire to conquer need not apply.
Next, any man would say that one loves the people but hates the government. However, I am yet to see this take effect. I celebrate the individual, and the way I see it, the government is set in place to satisfy the needs and wants of at least one individual that it represents (otherwise, it wouldn't exist). Those people that it represents best are, obviously, the people that benefit from that government, whatever it may be. It all adds up to the fact that all people hate the government eventually, until you take in the fact that the government itself is run by somebody, then it becomes personal. All the people that don't benefit from it band together to form a group against all those who do, the benefitters come together to protect their priviledges, and things get a little ugly from there. If the benefitters succeed, things don't change; the battle rages on. If the non-benefitters succeed, change in the government takes place, and the tides turn. Those who no longer benefit now attack to get their honor back, and it's those who now benefit that are the defenders. This was human history until republics and democracies were formed, but that's another comment.
And the Hitler comment, yes, he probably would have, until he would have found out how incompetent Hitler was, then he would have seen that he could never benefit from such a one-man power trip. Lord knows Rommel saw that.
I'm kind of bored right now, so I'll finish this later. Others, don't think for a moment that you're safe from my logic; i'll get to you yet. :) Have a good one till then.
Oh, and if the person below me that I based this on feels that I have been unfair, please feel free to rebute.

Posted by DeadSky @ 11/20/2002 07:18 PM PST

Ok Duncan,
Let's start out that Rome COLLAPSED because of the same reason the USA will collapse. The feverish drive to conquer the world, not paying attention to the people, and paying fat politicians to make themselves fatter. Just like Phoenicia, Egypt, The Inquisition, Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russia.

What most intelligent liberals and conservatives (that doesn't include you) agree on is that you can love a country or it's people, but loath an administration or regime. I suppose you would have been backing Hitler in 1933 Germany because "It's the State, Love the Fatherland".

Oh, I'm not inpressed by your Military and History mastering. You are studying history from the elite/conquering point of view, and not the common man/woman. I am a 3D animator and music composer for a very well known chip manufacturer. We do TV and radio commercials. I am very aware of how you can brainwash people through the media. I add my own flavor to commercials and the corporate types love it. We're both happy. I refuse to manipulate even poor slobs like Duncan, even though that's very easy to do.

One last question Duncan the Klansman, will you submit to an imbedded chip and forced smallpox vaccination?

Posted by Time Step @ 11/20/2002 07:41 AM PST

Ok Duncan,
Let's start out that Rome COLLAPSED because of the same reason the USA will collapse. The feverish drive to conquer the world, not paying attention to the people, and paying fat politicians to make themselves fatter. Just like Phoenicia, Egypt, The Inquisition, Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russia.

What most intelligent liberals and conservatives (that doesn't include you) agree on is that you can love a country or it's people, but loath an administration or regime. I suppose you would have been backing Hitler in 1933 Germany because "It's the State, Love the Fatherland".

Oh, I'm not inpressed by your Military and History mastering. You are studying history from the elite/conquering point of view, and not the common man/woman. I am a 3D animator and music composer for a very well known chip manufacturer. We do TV and radio commercials. I am very aware of how you can brainwash people through the media. I add my own flavor to commercials and the corporate types love it. We're both happy. I refuse to manipulate even poor slobs like Duncan, even though that's very easy to do.

One last question Duncan the Klansman, will you submit to an imbedded chip and forced smallpox vaccination?

Posted by Time Step @ 11/20/2002 07:41 AM PST

I don't think it's really about whether we should look at the president and what he's doing right and wrong. I think that we should look at what we can do and how we can stop suffering. It's time to grow out of egotistic and materialistic thought process. It's time to stop the pain and anguish. Our political system is corrupt, but what can we do against it? Is the answer nothing? I do not have that answer, and, in fact, I have much fewer answers than I have questions because I am just as ignorant as the rest of us. All I know is that we need to pay attention to what we do and how we can change what is happening. We need to stop intrinsic self-preservation and become more altruistic. This is not something to be forced. It is only by free will can one choose this, and this will to choose can only be driven by self-sacrifice at the assuagement of someone else's suffering

Posted by Chris @ 11/19/2002 11:04 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/19/2002 09:43 PM PST

Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?

can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?

...if any?

Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:25 PM PST

Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?

can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?

...if any?

Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:25 PM PST

Who is evil? those who terrorize the citizens and bring death and suffering in their own country? or those who bring death and suffering into other countries?

can somebody tell me the difference betwen hussein and bush?

...if any?

Posted by Peace for Vieques @ 11/19/2002 09:24 PM PST

Alright Timestep, let's begin shall we?

No. I don't go to chemwhatever and haven't bothered looking at it either. I post in various places, look me up some time, I'm not hard to find.

I blame liberals for a large number of things. I blame them for apathy, I blame them for a waste of government funds on nonworking programs such as welfare and affirmative action. I blame them for weakening the military, I blame them for not standing up for their own country, and I blame them for rallying to the cause of nations and individuals who hate this country. That is what I blame Liberals for.

I am not a pavlovian dog there cur, I'm an American Citizen, and one with a masters degree in history and military theory. Can you say the same for yourself? How can you say that Rome was not a civilization when the very foundation upon which the modern world is grounded in are lessons learned by Rome?

Learn a bit of history before you decide to rant off about things you know nothing about.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 04:15 PM PST

Alright Timestep, let's begin shall we?

No. I don't go to chemwhatever and haven't bothered looking at it either. I post in various places, look me up some time, I'm not hard to find.

I blame liberals for a large number of things. I blame them for apathy, I blame them for a waste of government funds on nonworking programs such as welfare and affirmative action. I blame them for weakening the military, I blame them for not standing up for their own country, and I blame them for rallying to the cause of nations and individuals who hate this country. That is what I blame Liberals for.

I am not a pavlovian dog there cur, I'm an American Citizen, and one with a masters degree in history and military theory. Can you say the same for yourself? How can you say that Rome was not a civilization when the very foundation upon which the modern world is grounded in lessons learned by Rome?

Learn a bit of history before you decide to rant off about things you know nothing about.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 04:15 PM PST

To Duncan,
Are you the clown that spouts Fascism over at Chemtrailcentral?

You keep blaming "Liberals" for the problems. How Linear!!!And STUPID!

Here's the situation:
The following liberals are for the Oil War:
Christopher Hitchens
Marc Cooper
David Corn

The Following Conservatives are against The Oil War:
William Safire
Phylis Schlafly
Lew Rockwell
Bob Barr
Robert Byrd

You are a Robot of The State to think in the left/right mode. Don't be yelling at people to think for themselves, when you are a Pavlovian Dog.

You state Rome as an advancment of civilization. Good Choice!! Dummy!!!!!!

Posted by Time Step @ 11/19/2002 03:41 PM PST

Yeah, consider this, if we goto war with The middle east THERE GOES OUR OIL = THERE GOES our economy, you people who want war so bad can just bend over and take it!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Anon @ 11/19/2002 03:22 PM PST

ok.

let's all participate in a lil' exercise.

let's all print out a copy of this discussion thread and file it away some place safe.

in 5 years, let's re-convene and review the thread.

if bush's approval rating is above 75% (i'm assuming the crook will still be in power), i'll eat my copy.

if the US has not been accused of conspiring to start this world war, i'll eat my copy.

if evidence of our complicity in 2001's horrific attacks has not been embraced by mainstream media, i'll eat my copy.

that is, assuming this thread doesn't land me in jail thanks to our new homeland security guidelines.

if this, my sole posting, does get me in trouble with the gubment, y'all will eat your copies.

bon appetit, suckers!

Posted by ronnie james dio @ 11/19/2002 02:49 PM PST

A note to Duncan: Nazism and Fascism are to the extreme right. Communism is to the extreme left.

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/19/2002 03:49 AM PST

Very mature there "Adolf". How old are you? Twelve?

Posted by Duncan @ 11/19/2002 12:08 AM PST

Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Fuck them and their useless lives!!!FUCK EM FUCK EM!!!

Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST

Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Fuck them and their useless lives!!!FUCK EM FUCK EM!!!

Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST

Kill all arabs!!! Kill all arabs!!!
Fuck them and their useless lives!!!FUCK EM FUCK EM!!!

Posted by Adolf @ 11/19/2002 12:00 AM PST

Hi everyone, I live in Mexico and I believe that Americans are slimey pigs with no lives at all. So I hope you guys go to war and I hope that America loses.
Thanks,
Sanchez

Posted by Dirty Sanchez @ 11/18/2002 11:25 PM PST

Hi everyone, I live in Mexico and I believe that Americans are slimey pigs with no lives at all. So I hope you guys go to war and I hope that America loses.
Thanks,
Sanchez

Posted by Dirty Sanchez @ 11/18/2002 11:24 PM PST

I have no problem with the bombing of civilians. I have no problems with the sufferings of others. I have no problems with that at all, and would you like to know why?

Because I'm an American. We have problems of our own enough here. We don't need to fix the problems of the world, that is why other countries have governments and leaders. We aren't a fucking charity and we don't need to act like one. If a country has poor people, maybe THEY should do something about it. If a country is poor, maybe they should stop pouring money into a military that is inept comparitivly. MAYBE if that occured we could have worldwide peace, but it won't happen. My views aren't intolerance, they are simple. America should care for it's self first, and its allies second. We aren't the caretaker of the world, nor should we act as such.

You want intolerance, fine. Nigger. There you go, now you can call me a hatemonger also, it's not what I believe or think, but I used the word to make you happy and to give you a reason to hate me because I support the government. Not that you need a reason to hate me, you probably hate the government because they don't send checks to you fast enough. The government needs to stop being the hand out king and start making people be proud of the fact they are American. Stand up for the country you live in, this isn't Nazi Germany no matter how much left wing liberals push it. This isn't a hell on earth, and G.W. Bush didn't cause the attacks on the towers no matter how much false evidence can be manufactured that looks as such.

How long do you have to listen to lies from Liberals before you realize that they have their own propaganda and slander machines working full time to make you think such? Weigh the facts objectivly, get them from legitimate sources, not from people with a beef against one person or another. Get them from impartial and concise sources, then try to think for yourself.

It's very refreshing.

Yes, War advances civilization. The romans advanced civilization through conquoring others, the same occured here within America with the native Americans.

Think before you speak man, the world has enough liberals who hate just because they think that free thinking means disagreeing with reality or the government. If you really want to think for yourself, do so, but don't spout things which others before you have said in better, more articulate phrases.

Posted by Duncan @ 11/18/2002 10:48 PM PST

I have no problem with the bombing of civilians. I have no problems with the sufferings of others. I have no problems with that at all, and would you like to know why?

Because I'm an American. We have problems of our own enough here. We don't need to fix the problems of the world, that is why other countries have governments and leaders. We aren't a fucking charity and we don't need to act like one. If a country has poor people, maybe THEY should do something about it. If a country is poor, maybe they should stop pouring money into a military that is inept comparitivly. MAYBE if that occured we could have worldwide peace, but it won't happen. My views aren't intolerance, they are simple. America should care for it's self first, and its allies second. We aren't the caretaker of the world, nor should we act as such.

You want intolerance, fine. Nigger. There you go, now you can call me a hatemonger also, it's not what I believe or think, but I used the word to make you happy and to give you a reason to hate me because I support the government. Not that you need a reason to hate me, you probably hate the government because they don't send checks to you fast enough. The government needs to stop being the hand out king and start making people be proud of the fact they are American. Stand up for the country you live in, this isn't Nazi Germany no matter how much left wing liberals push it. This isn't a hell on earth, and G.W. Bush didn't cause the attacks on the towers no matter how much false evidence can be manufactured that looks as such.

How long do you have to listen to lies from Liberals before you realize that they have their own propaganda and slander machines working full time to make you think such? Weigh the facts objectivly, get them from legitimate sources, not from people with a beef against one person or another. Get them from impartial and concise sources, then try to think for yourself.

It's very refreshing.

Yes, War advances civilization. The romans advanced civilization through conquoring others, the same occured here within America with the native Americans.

Think before you speak man, the world has enough liberals who hate just because they think that free thinking means disagreeing with reality or the government. If you really want to think for yourself, do so, but don't spout things which others before you have said in better, more articulate phrases.

Posted by Duncan @ 11/18/2002 10:26 PM PST

good insights Dr. Timothy Leary

Posted by bob @ 11/18/2002 09:00 PM PST

I just want to thank Duncan. It is your simplistic and intolerant view, and those like you that has got us where we are today. I am glad to be part of an advancing civilization. Who'd of thought that all that was needed to be a part of this advancing civilization was the indiscriminant bombing and enforcement of brutal sanctions against already poor and sick civillians.

Posted by Phil @ 11/18/2002 08:18 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 07:06 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:54 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:53 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:51 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:50 PM PST

"Tell a lie loud enough and long enough and people will believe it." -Adolf Hitler

"Telling the truth is a revolutionary act in a time of universal deceit." -George Orwell

Lies are the enemy of truth, and this planet has been lied to for thousands of years. The REAL facts will not be seen or heard on any mainstream news source. Below are some internet sources that I believe to be closer to truth than any political opinion or religious doctrine.

If you really want to know what the agenda is of our world leaders then you need to consider
the bizarre and the impossible, because its about more than power and greed, but about planetary domination and it goes deeper...even to the point where it's almost impossible to believe. But, it doesn't mean we should laugh at it and disregard it. Who are we to say we know everything? We should, but we don't, and it's been that way on purpose, to keep us reacting exactly as we do:

"yeah, okay, whatever..I'm going back to my TV show, hotdog, and beer now"

Nazi Germany is happening all over again. If you don't think so, I suggest checking out the links below.

"A revolution of peaceful information has begun." -Alex Jones, Infowars radio host in Austin, Tx

www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.rense.com
www.williamcooper.com

Posted by Landon @ 11/18/2002 06:49 PM PST

Sean Penn doesn't know jack about what he's talking about. His points are tenuous. Like his last paragraph; what the hell was that? He's droning on about fundamentalism, but from the way he uses the word, it makes me doubt that he actually knows what it means.
I tell you folks, I'm not a Republican and I never will be one. I'm not a fan of Bush, and I'm not trying to defend him. I'm even against the war in Iraq. But I'm realistic about survival. When Sean says something like:
' Yet, that bombing is answered by bombing, mutilation by mutilation, killing by killing, is a pattern that only a great country like ours can stop.'

This makes me want to kick his ass. But I wouldn't have to, because if we lived in a world where we simply stopped fighting back against the terrorists, they'd bomb his ass before I had a chance to kick it.

I don't believe in Bush's doctrine of invading a country to get its oil under the guise of destroying its weapons of mass destruction. But I also don't believe that we can wash our problems away by sticking our heads in the sand (no pun intended).

My advice to solve the problem in Iraq? I don't have one, and I'm man enough to admit that I don't have all the answers. But I do know that:

A) We can't spend billions on a war, then tens of billions on occupation. And we had goddamn well not have good American boys dying in the streets of Baghdad.

B) A few hundred weapon inspectors, if there even are that many, can NOT effectively find every possible weapon cache/weapon lab in a country the size of France, no matter how good their technology is. Weapons inspectors are redundant; there are nearly as many Hussein Presidental Palaces as there are field UN inspectors.

There needs to be some grand think-tank debates to figure this one out. Don't be afraid to think yourselves, too. But my advice is not take Sean Penn's.

Posted by Gunboat @ 11/18/2002 05:00 PM PST

Wow. Thats a stunning letter. I completely agree. Maybe Sean Penn should be the next President ;)

Posted by HK @ 11/18/2002 01:30 PM PST

Wow, that was one hell of a letter, and I have to say Sean Penn brought up some damn good points, unfortunatly because of the United States previous conflicts with the middle east we are now ever further entrenched in the struggle. For it was the US who first supplied Hussien with weapons and money to battle Iran and communism. All actions up to this point in time to bring peace to the middle east have only spawned more chaos. The sad truth is that no mater what we do we keep digging ourselves deeper, To completely back out of the middle east in their(iraqi's, Terrorsits ect) eyes would been seen as a retreat and a sign of weakness. Perhaps that would satisfy them enough or encourage them to go on the offensive. More US presance in the middle east will only spawn more terror. I do not comend Pres Bush on his current status with the situation nor condem it, after all who out there truely knows how to handle this situtation so that everyone comes out happy...

Posted by Ben @ 11/18/2002 12:44 PM PST

First of all, to list all of the anomolies concerning 9/11 would take up too much space. They all were involved, Bush, Cheney, Bin Laden, Sharon, Rumsfeld, Hussein, ad nauseum.

Maybe you should all study history a little and see who supported the Nazis from 1939-1941. Luminaries such as Prescott Bush, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, and the Rockefellers. It's the same mindset who support The Dumbking now.

Sean Penn....Good job.....Someone who takes the Risk. More power to all of us.

One more thing....Will all you bellicose baboons who support The Smirking Chimp, also take your mandatory smallpox vaccine and install the implanted VeriChip?

Posted by Swamp Gas @ 11/18/2002 10:07 AM PST

Would Bush start a war for his own benift? Well, all I am going to say is that before 9-11, he was seen as quite a weak and foolish leader by most of the world, who had got into power through not entirely legitamate means, and had spent more time on holiday than any president in power. Come 9-11, and he is suddenly reinvented as a courageous and bold leader, rebuilding his country. The only person who seems to have gained anything from this whole situation is Bush.

Posted by Frank @ 11/18/2002 06:18 AM PST

I liked Mr. Penn’s letter. Obviously he was intending it for many people other than Herr Bush, but I’m sure that it will reach at least a few of the functionaries within the administration, perhaps even to Der Furher’s desk. Stranger things have happened. Someone wrote that the money would have been better spent for a message from Chomsky, I don’t agree. I respect Chomsky very much, but unfortunately he has been somewhat marginalized, and his opinions on these matters are already well known. I believe having another message from an unexpected quarter, albeit somewhat lukewarm, is of greater benefit. Hopefully this will embolden others to take a stand, and put their money where there mouth is.

I wanted to cover some points that came to mind while reading some readers’ comments. Although I won’t be able to bury the entire stinking pile of idiocy I encountered, I hope I’ll be able to wake at least a few people up:

1. UN resolutions: Yes, Iraq is in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. So what! There are many countries in violation of UN Security Council resolutions. Our (so called) ally Israel is the undisputed champion of UN Security Council resolution violations, and has a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons with global deployment capabilities, and has invaded every one of its neighboring countries several times.

2. Weapons inspections: Weapons inspections never stopped in Iraq. The IAEA, the enforcement agency for the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Pact, has been inspecting Iraq yearly as Iraq is a signatory of that pact. Guess which country just “excused” itself from that pact recently: The US!

3. UN weapons inspections: Saddam never kicked the UN inspectors out of Iraq, they were withdrawn by the UN in anticipation of Operation Desert Fox. Here is where Clinton got to stroke that big American military phallus, for those who thought he was such a saint. Saddam was not being very cooperative at the time, making accusations of inspectors spying for the US and perhaps Israel. Guess what? One of the inspectors admitted that he was probably right, and that it was unavoidable. I agree, he was probably right, that’s why I don’t think ANY global body has the right to impose its will on the sovereignty of ANY nation. As far as Saddam’s lack of cooperation now, he seems to have the same objections, and the UN keeps changing its demands. It looks to me like the UN is making demands it has no right make, and is negotiating in bad faith.

4. Saddam is a horrible dictator that needs to be ousted: Well, I won’t disagree that he’s a horrible dictator. The reason that US establishment wants him out, though, is that he’s not OUR horrible dictator. The Baath party junta (of which Saddam is a part) was backed by the US in the late ‘60s, in order to remove a regime that the US didn’t like. Saddam was backed by the US in the late ‘70s to the late ‘80s and was provided with materials to manufacture biological and chemical weapons in order to prosecute a war against Iran. The new Iranian regime had recently ousted the US backed dictatorship installed in the ‘50s. Iraq apparently did use chemical weapons in this war, as did Iran. Saddam may have ordered the use of chemical weapons on the Kurds, but did you know that they were fighting for Iran? Iraq did invade Kuwait over a border dispute that was as old as the formation of those states after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire after WWI. Did you know, though, that Saddam had asked for permission from the Daddy Bush administration before invading, and that Saddam was told it was not the US’ concern? We were allies, after all! Also, of note, is the fact that the US had invaded Panama around this time. What was that about a pot and kettle? The fact is that the US has backed, installed, and or trained many dictators, depots, and mass murderers throughout the years. Look for information on Fort Benning Georgia, the School of the Americas, and now the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. The fact is the US establishment has no compunctions about exerting its will on people anywhere in the world, using our brothers and sisters in the military, while they and their children use lame excuses or National Guard duty to avoid putting their own asses on the line. I’m not very supportive of the military or the mindset of those who choose that path, but there is one and only one legitimate use for it, defense. Defense does not mean playing with the politics of other countries in order to benefit some influential businessmen, or for anyone’s benefit for that matter. Neither is defense, “we should …um… get ‘im first, or somthin’ cuz he might …er… use newcular boms on my daddy…er I mean us sumday.” Defense is the use of force when force has been used on you, or an EXPLICIT threat of force has been made. THERE IS NO OTHER LEGITIMATE USE OF FORCE. In case anyone is wondering, the founding fathers warned against “foreign entanglements.” Defense of other countries is not a legitimate use of force by this country, either. The US, nor anyone else for that matter, should play the role of word policeman. All that leads to is world war, world government, and world tyranny.

5. Hitler: To those who try to compare Saddam to Hitler. Europe was none of our business. Yes, he was certainly a bastard. Once again the US establishment backed a murderous dictator (at least into the ‘30s), but when he became too much of an embarrassment, the US sided with an even worse murderous dictator, Stalin. FDR tried to provoke Germany into a war with the US that he had promised that we would not get involved in. Failing there he did provoke Japan into attacking and kept the Pearl Harbor command in the dark in order to guarantee the fruition of his plan (look for “day of deceit” for the documented evidence of this and much more). The water gets even muddier when you look at allied fire-bombings of civilians in Dresden and Tokyo, as well as the nuclear bombings of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki when Germany and Japan were already defeated and had already begun negotiations for surrender. If you think I’m full of it, find out for yourself what McArthur had to say about it. Another good one is Operation Keelhaul, where Britain and the US sent 2 million refugees from the USSR back into that murderous regime’s waiting arms, or the mysterious “disappearance” of more than 2 million Wermacht POWs after Germany’s defeat. Saddam is no Hitler, and he isn’t particularly bad compared to the other dictators propped up by the US over the years. The only real animosity he has for any country in the region is Israel, and they can certainly take care of themselves with their ultra-modern military and nuclear arsenal paid for with US taxpayer money. As far as I’m concerned, Ariel Sharon is at least as bad as Saddam Hussein. Considering Israel’s history of aggression on neighbors and on the indigenous peoples, well, not our problem. The most responsible thing to do would be to stop funding Israel’s Wermacht.

6. War on Afghanistan: The official 9-11 story with the convenient “evidence” trail was immediately recognizable as some cheap pulp mystery novel. Several international publications had reported months before 9-11 that the US was going to invade Afghanistan to oust the Taliban (apparently in order to stabilize the region in order to run oil and gas pipelines from the Caspian Basin through Afghanistan into China and the Indian Ocean as well as increase opium production that was being suppressed by the Taliban). Several of the supposed “Arab hijackers” are still alive and some others had been dead for some time. The FBI has admitted these facts on several occasions but continued to list these men’s pictures and names, knowing that these and probably all of the identities were stolen. No Arab names were listed on any of the flight lists. Apparently, none of the 4 allegedly hijacked planes were intercepted by fighters during the entire several hour period between the time the first went off course and the last plane crashed even though there were several AF and ANG bases nearby(possible exception of a shoot-down of the plane in Pennsylvania). The Taliban offered to release Osama bin Laden to an international criminal court if the US would provide evidence that he was involved in the events, the US did not offer any such evidence. The US has killed several thousand civilians and apparently has been involved in the murder of several thousand POWs as well as bombed Red Cross compounds on several occasions in Afghanistan. Is this the Infinite Justice the War Party was referring to? The US continues to hold prisoners, most of whom were simply defending their country from foreign invaders, from this ongoing war in conditions that contradict the Geneva Convention of which the use is a signatory. Basically, the US used a criminal event allegedly committed by an international organization to justify prosecuting a war against a sovereign nation that was not even accused of being involved. Do not delude yourself that we were there to liberate the Afghan people from the tyranny of the Taliban. The Taliban was preferred by many to the murderous Northern Alliance that they replaced. The current puppet government run by Unocal oilman Kurzei won’t survive the removal of the US military presence.

7. Citizen rights abused: Other than unconstitutional legislation that was raced through Congress with nary a glance, more than a thousand citizens and residents were held incommunicado without evidence or charges immediately after 9-11, some are still being held. One story goes that a man arrested immediately following the events was held without communication with family or attorney for 5 months without charges. He was released without an apology, compensation, nothing. He was simply told that they were looking for someone else with the same name. Jose Padilla, a citizen, is still being held without charges or communication. The Bush administration first claimed he was being held for suspicion of attempting to build a dirty bomb, but later admitted they had no such evidence. This accusation is totally idiotic. No country, even the US, has been able to successfully build a dirty bomb. The radiation necessary to do any appreciable damage after dispersion would quickly kill anyone trying to make or transport one. Does anyone think that these unconstitutional incarcerations make you personally safer, and that you’ll never be plucked off the street or your couch with no warrant, no evidence, and no charges? Maybe not, but then again…

8. Our Israeli ally: Lavon affair. U.S.S. Liberty. Framing of Libya for Disco bombing. Ostrovsky. Mossad. Pollard. Israeli spy ring. Israeli “art students”. Israeli moving company. Sorry, too much to say here and I’m tired. These should be helpful search phrases if you are interested. I don’t want to be called “anti-Semitic” for laying out too much damning info here. Oh…too late.

I could go on, but I don’t want to overload anyone with any more “conspiracy theories.” Of course, the official 9-11 story is a “Muslim Fundamentalist” conspiracy theory. As is the Bush administrations current justification for the War Without End for OIL. For those who think that Bush is restraining himself because he doesn’t want war, hah! It’s just that he hasn’t found a manufactured justification that can convince the world or the majority of the American people. He needs something really big, expect it soon!

But the US would not manufacture justifications for war! Would they?

Spanish American War – boiler fire cooking of ammunition causing an explosion in the U.S.S. Maine.

World War I – Lucetania: Suppression of German warnings to passengers in US newspapers, transport of ammunition for Germany’s enemies, separation from escort, route through known dangerous territory.

World War II – Failed attempt to provoke Germany into attack during naval intervention in aid of Britain. Pearl Harbor: provocation of Japan including embargoes, suppression of intelligence from Pearl Harbor command.

Communist Cuba – Operation Northwoods: Joint Chiefs’ plan to fake attacks on US civilians and military to justify attacking Castro’s Cuba after the Bay of Pigs failure. Rejected by JFK.

Vietnam – Non-existent Tonkin Gulf incident.

Gulf War I – Attacked Iraq after telling Saddam that this local matter was not our concern.

“War on Terror”: Afghanistan – 09-11-2001. Admitted lack of evidence used to justify a war that had already been in the works scheduled for October of that year. Originally denied any prior knowledge, but then admitted “vague” warnings (yes they did). Several foreign intelligence services had given detailed warnings and several administration officials had ceased commercial airline flights during month prior to incident (look it up).

Think for yourself, question authority – Dr. Timothy Leary

Posted by Keith @ 11/18/2002 02:56 AM PST

I've just read some of you dumb Bushie followers comments....The guy's a clown, and his puppeteers have at least managed to get control of your single-cell brains...Dumb morons....you guys have a tcking time-bomb for a government, and it's only a matter of time you blow the world to smithereens (and that includes yourselves!!!)

Posted by Dave (south africa) @ 11/18/2002 02:44 AM PST

Proof right here that Shaun Penn is just another stupid DEMOCRAT. Yes, lets all just wait to see that ISLAMIC JIHADISTS (notice I pinpointed our enemy and didn't gloss them over as terrorists) or Hussein do have the weapons of mass destruction and the means of using them before we try to stop them. BOOM! Dang I didn't see that coming, it was the Presidents fault! We just didn't want to racially profile, because it might have hurt their feelings. He knew it all along! Why didn't he do anything? Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

THAT IS WHY THEY ARE KILLING US! We live in a world that has become pansies under democratic rule because they are too PC to do anything. I applaud Bush for taking such bold steps to clean house and get democratic scumbags out of office. Time for a fresh start!

What is Penn saying that he Kennedy administration was so much better than Bush? Talk about crooked politicians when it comes to the Kennedy's (scumbags of the earth). Stupid democrats, they'll never lean.

If you don't know what is really going on, listen to Neal Boortz (www.boortz.com). At least this guy tells it pretty much like it is instead of telling you want you want to hear.

Posted by blown0690 @ 11/18/2002 01:56 AM PST

if u looked at america, no doubt that you would find many more "weapons of mass destruction". and yet bush complains when he decides that another country may have weapons too. anyone else see where im going?

Posted by J @ 11/18/2002 12:27 AM PST

By the Way, Shilo, one question for you. All your talk of Gulf War Syndrome, I have an answer for that, something that not a damned person in the media will let out, want to guess why?

Because it's been quashed time and time again.

During the Gulf War, Pepsi Co. Gave to the army personell there an undisclosed amount of Diet Pepsi, FREE for anyone who wanted it.

Because it tastes better than water, over 90% of the military personell drank the pepsi, why? Because it was free.

Where was the Pepsi stored? In tents in the heat. This is the cause of Gulf War Syndrome.

Bullshit you say? Allow me to expound further.

Diet Pepsi contains sacharin (Spelling?), it also read "Do not store in temperatures exceeding 100 degrees Farenhight. Average stored Pepsi temperature? 105-110 degrees.

Sacharine when exposed to this heat breaks down to it's components, which are toxic to the human body when ingested. The drinking of Diet Pepsi caused the medical problems that we are seeing in gulf war vets. Why was this information not released to everyone who was drinking the Diet Pepsi?

Liberal Media likes to point fingers at the people they consider enemies. They don't consider Pepsi an enemy.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 11:31 PM PST

Thanks for the support John, I'm glad to know that there are more people out there than myself who think for ourselves and don't let the democratic party lead us around by our balls.

Anyone watch the news of late?

The HEAD of the UN Investigators point blank said that minor infarctions of what Iraq says they will not bother to report and will simply ignore. Exactly how minor will those be? Nuclear? Biological? Chemical? What? Someone, please tell me why when the USA and other countries have all stated that they want a zero-tolerance policy to be in effect, why we have to put up with a head investigator saying he will ignore things?

Doesn't that destroy his credibility on what he's doing? Doesn't that mean that he isn't doing his job?

Meanwhile he is doing all this at UN orders, the world waits on baited breath to hear what Saddam is doing in his country, and what the UN will do because of it.

Personally, I suspect that the UN will once again prove worthless, an overly large politicaly inept body incapable of doing much beyond puffing up it's own ego. The UN is a failure, it's becoming just like the "World" government that was around before the Second World War. Anyone ever heard of the League of Nations? It failed once and we gave it a second shot.

It's failing a second time and people still cling to it being somewhat important and useful.

Sadly, such is no longer the case.

To Bush I say this, Ignore the UN, it has proven to be powerless, and inept. The countries that back it's agendas are primarily our allies who look to us before they look to what the UN says. What country is the only truly remaining "Super Power"? It's not Russia, it's the USA. Grab your boot straps, cinch up the belt, and give the UN the finger. Without America the UN is impotent.

Time to start calling in all the old debts that the world at large owes us. Britain? They owe us large amounts of money from the Second World War and before, Japan? We made their economy. Russia? World War Two Lend Lease program. France, Germany, Italy, all of them owe the US of A money.

Call in the favors, call in the debts, and let's watch the rest of the world scramble to appease the America who they always turn to for aid.

If other countries don't wish our aid, then they need to stop begging us to help them when burning us in the media. If you don't like our country, fine, move the hell out. We are tired of defeatism coming from the liberals and the unamerican democrats.

Welcome to reality Ladies and Gents, there is no conspiracy, there is no harsh jewish secret government, there is only the truth. And the truth can be quoted from Yamamoto during World War Two.

"I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant, and it will devour us."

Wake up, America for the Americans, and damn the rest.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 11:20 PM PST

No matter what war is gonna happen, bush has already attacked afghanistan, on his way to attacking iraq, after iraq who knows its like a game of Risk slowly he will get different countries in the world until he's ready to control it

Posted by Bob @ 11/17/2002 10:30 PM PST

Do any of you really think that anyone in the United States is delighted at the prospect of going to war with Iraq. I think that George W. Bush realizes that a war with Iraq will harm his popularity rating with a large portion of the American public, but I think that is grossly outweighed by his concern for the citizens of this nation. Have you already forgotten that horrible day in September when the United States was changed forever. If I recall correctly, President Bush was praised for his reaction to the Al Queda attacks. He was given entheusiastic support from the vast majority of America. However, it was only a matter of time before the left wing, Democratic party started resorting to its deceptive (and in my opinion unAmerican) tactics. Representative Cynthia McKinney even went so far as to accuse the President of having previous knowledge of the attack beforehand and doing nothing to prevent it. I do recall the report that went unnoticed on a White House desk that "could have prevented all of this," but I believe that President Bush has been forced into taking action against any nation or terrorist organization who threatens our freedom-- unless he wants to risk a potential Congressional hearing or-- if the Democratic Party would have its way-- impeachment.

As for the media's attemps at reporting accurately and its alleged "pro-war agenda," I don't think now, nor have I ever thought, that the media serves the best interest of the American public. It's so quick to report anything it knows as being fact, and often going so far as to say that it's the "whole truth." The fact is that the media only knows a limited amount of what the government knows. The fact is that the media feels its role is to provide America with a non-bias view of current issues. Unfortunately, they neglect to add a disclaimer at the beginning of their broadcast saying that their own personal agenda will be strongly reflected. The President's administration was cricticized harshly recently for waiting to release information of North Korea's development of nuclear weapons. Would an earlier release of this information have benefitted anyone watching the news? I don't think so. The only "problem" was that the Executive branch failed to let the media bloodhounds in on a secret. The media is lying to America when it tries to persuade it one way or another because nine times out of ten, it is underinformed. The President and Congress have national security briefings every day that are classified, and they have them for a reason-- they are the people we've entrusted to make our decisions for us. They are better informed than the media and better informed than any of us are on the situations at hand. I yield to the President and his administration's decision on this dilema, and I think that more Americans should trust in his ability to make it.

The President is not making "phychotic actions" as stated in a post below. He is working hard night and day to try to prevent another catastrophe from striking America. I hope that the President can avoid a war in this situation-- I don't like seeing lives lost whether they be us, them, military, or civilian. All of you who don't want war and who think that inspectors and negotiations are the only method to prevent Iraq's build-up of power need to take a look at what that did in North Korea and recall the announcement I alluded to earlier. Killing people may not be the answer to all of our problems, but we better do more than just send in a bunch of UN delegates and think that will stop the mounting threat in the Middle East.

Posted by Poster @ 11/17/2002 09:30 PM PST

Just have to say Duncan, thank you, maybe there is hope for us yet. Liberals are so out of touch with history and act like everything is happening for the first time ever, and everything is so upsetting. Read a goddamn history book all you whiny liberals. You act like Bush is on his own crusade for himself, which is stupid if you actually think that, and that he is some kind of dictator in America that has absolute power. Any president bush or not would see the threat that iraq creates to the world. The threat has been there sense the Clinton era, just like the terrorist threat was there. Clinton did not have the balls to do anything about it, why? Because he knew many people would get angry over it, and lower his popularity to put it short, he did not care about the Americans that were murdered by terrorist, only his own angenda. I'm glad we have a president that actually has values, and balls to not care about looking good on T.V and making everyone love him. He will get things done, weither the out of touch and no sense of history liberals whine thier hearts out or not.

Posted by John @ 11/17/2002 09:29 PM PST

I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.

The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
Mr. Bush's unprecedented national and global power-grab is both immoral and criminal.

The facts:

1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
with an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq conflict which took place during the latter part of the 80's.

2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
teach Saddam a lesson when he invaded Kuwait. The ensuing melee?
The Gulf War. The short term
results? Thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi's, and approximately 125 American casualties. Two-thirds
of whom died as a result of 'friendly fire,' and equipment failure. However, EVERYONE there,
(including our own troops,) were exposed to depleted uranium, thanks to the resourcefulness of the Pentagon, who saw Iraq as
the ideal dumping ground for all that hazardous nuclear waste that had been sitting around military depots collecting dust. The long-
term results of exposure? Gulf War
veterans are afflicted with many illnesses. They've dubbed the ailment: "The Gulf War Syndrome."
Though the war ended in a matter of
calendar weeks, it continues to kill more than a decade later.

3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.

4. To further punish Hussein,he
imposed sanctions against Iraq. Sanctions that made not one whit of difference in the dictator's day-to-day life, but are directly
responsible for the deaths of 1-1.5 million Iraqi civilians. To this very day, these sanctions are
in place. 3,000 Iraqi CHILDREN
die each month. They die of dysentry, diarhhea, and a host of of other easily preventable illnesses. These deaths are brought on by the destruction of Iraq'a infrastructure during the war and denial of medicene through sanctions, the shortage of food brought about by sanctions. (By the way, these sanctions are imposed in direct violation of the Geneva Accord.)
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I had
no idea said sanctions were in place until three months ago.
How can any government on God's green earth rationalize, much less, justify such barbaric treatment of civilians? Our
quarrel was with Saddam, not civilians. Babies yet to be born
are being made to pay for Saddam's disfavor. Why did GHWB leave him
in power! Why does our government continue to kill CHILDREN in our name?!

5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
But it is ludicrous to believe those who suggest he poses a greater threat than any other
third-world dictator with an
appetite for WMD.

According to our own intelligence
agencies Directors Iraq has no ties to Osama bin Forgotten and
played no role in orchestrating or executing the events which transpired 9.11.

On the other hand,
Iraq DOES sit atop the second-largest oil reserve in the world.

Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
and a life-long held reputation as
a privileged, arrogant bully. A direct quote: "And besides, he did try to kill my dad."
(Apparently he failed to make note of, or forgot that his wife Laura was seated beside dear old dad in the car during the failed assasination attempt.)

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
You've slumbered long enough!
Be quick! For twilight is giving way to darkness..

I leave you with these words:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American
public." --Theodore Roosevelt--


May God Help Us All-- Shiloh

Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 09:00 PM PST

I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.

The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
Mr. Bush's unprecedented national and global power-grab is both immoral and criminal.

The facts:

1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
with an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq conflict which took place during the latter part of the 80's.

2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
teach Saddam a lesson when he invaded Kuwait. The ensuing melee?
The Gulf War. The short term
results? Thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi's, and approximately 125 American casualties. Two-thirds
of whom died as a result of 'friendly fire,' and equipment failure. However, EVERYONE there,
(including our own troops,) were exposed to depleted uranium, thanks to the resourcefulness of the Pentagon, who saw Iraq as
the ideal dumping ground for all that hazardous nuclear waste that had been sitting around military depots collecting dust. The long-
term results of exposure? Gulf War
veterans are afflicted with many illnesses. They've dubbed the ailment: "The Gulf War Syndrome."
Though the war ended in a matter of
calendar weeks, it continues to kill more than a decade later.

3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.

4. To further punish Hussein,he
imposed sanctions against Iraq. Sanctions that made not one whit of difference in the dictator's day-to-day life, but are directly
responsible for the deaths of 1-1.5 million Iraqi civilians. To this very day, these sanctions are
in place. 3,000 Iraqi CHILDREN
die each month. They die of dysentry, diarhhea, and a host of of other easily preventable illnesses. These deaths are brought on by the destruction of Iraq'a infrastructure during the war and denial of medicene through sanctions, the shortage of food brought about by sanctions. (By the way, these sanctions are imposed in direct violation of the Geneva Accord.)
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I had
no idea said sanctions were in place until three months ago.
How can any government on God's green earth rationalize, much less, justify such barbaric treatment of civilians? Our
quarrel was with Saddam, not civilians. Babies yet to be born
are being made to pay for Saddam's disfavor. Why did GHWB leave him
in power! Why does our government continue to kill CHILDREN in our name?!

5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
But it is ludicrous to believe those who suggest he poses a greater threat than any other
third-world dictator with an
appetite for WMD.

According to our own intelligence
agencies Directors Iraq has no ties to Osama bin Forgotten and
played no role in orchestrating or executing the events which transpired 9.11.

On the other hand,
Iraq DOES sit atop the second-largest oil reserve in the world.

Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
and a life-long held reputation as
a privileged, arrogant bully. A direct quote: "And besides, he did try to kill my dad."
(Apparently he failed to make note of, or forgot that his wife Laura was seated beside dear old dad in the car during the failed assasination attempt.)

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
You've slumbered long enough!
Be quick! For twilight is giving way to darkness..

I leave you with these words:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American
public." --Theodore Roosevelt--


May God Help Us All-- Shiloh

Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 08:59 PM PST

I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.

The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
Mr. Bush's unprecedented national and global power-grab is both immoral and criminal.

The facts:

1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
with an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq conflict which took place during the latter part of the 80's.

2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
teach Saddam a lesson when he invaded Kuwait. The ensuing melee?
The Gulf War. The short term
results? Thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi's, and approximately 125 American casualties. Two-thirds
of whom died as a result of 'friendly fire,' and equipment failure. However, EVERYONE there,
(including our own troops,) were exposed to depleted uranium, thanks to the resourcefulness of the Pentagon, who saw Iraq as
the ideal dumping ground for all that hazardous nuclear waste that had been sitting around military depots collecting dust. The long-
term results of exposure? Gulf War
veterans are afflicted with many illnesses. They've dubbed the ailment: "The Gulf War Syndrome."
Though the war ended in a matter of
calendar weeks, it continues to kill more than a decade later.

3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.

4. To further punish Hussein,he
imposed sanctions against Iraq. Sanctions that made not one whit of difference in the dictator's day-to-day life, but are directly
responsible for the deaths of 1-1.5 million Iraqi civilians. To this very day, these sanctions are
in place. 3,000 Iraqi CHILDREN
die each month. They die of dysentry, diarhhea, and a host of of other easily preventable illnesses. These deaths are brought on by the destruction of Iraq'a infrastructure during the war and denial of medicene through sanctions, the shortage of food brought about by sanctions. (By the way, these sanctions are imposed in direct violation of the Geneva Accord.)
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I had
no idea said sanctions were in place until three months ago.
How can any government on God's green earth rationalize, much less, justify such barbaric treatment of civilians? Our
quarrel was with Saddam, not civilians. Babies yet to be born
are being made to pay for Saddam's disfavor. Why did GHWB leave him
in power! Why does our government continue to kill CHILDREN in our name?!

5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
But it is ludicrous to believe those who suggest he poses a greater threat than any other
third-world dictator with an
appetite for WMD.

According to our own intelligence
agencies Directors Iraq has no ties to Osama bin Forgotten and
played no role in orchestrating or executing the events which transpired 9.11.

On the other hand,
Iraq DOES sit atop the second-largest oil reserve in the world.

Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
and a life-long held reputation as
a privileged, arrogant bully. A direct quote: "And besides, he did try to kill my dad."
(Apparently he failed to make note of, or forgot that his wife Laura was seated beside dear old dad in the car during the failed assasination attempt.)

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
You've slumbered long enough!
Be quick! For twilight is giving way to darkness..

I leave you with these words:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American
public." --Theodore Roosevelt--


May God Help Us All-- Shiloh

Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 08:57 PM PST

I believe Mr. Penn succeeded in articulating the true feelings of the growing majority of American people.

The corporate-owned mainstream media is a disgrace.
Mr. Bush's unprecedented national and global power-grab is both immoral and criminal.

The facts:

1. Ronald Reagan supplied Hussein
with an arsenal of biological and chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq conflict which took place during the latter part of the 80's.

2. GHWB, (jr's dad,) decided we'd
teach Saddam a lesson when he invaded Kuwait. The ensuing melee?
The Gulf War. The short term
results? Thousands upon thousands of dead Iraqi's, and approximately 125 American casualties. Two-thirds
of whom died as a result of 'friendly fire,' and equipment failure. However, EVERYONE there,
(including our own troops,) were exposed to depleted uranium, thanks to the resourcefulness of the Pentagon, who saw Iraq as
the ideal dumping ground for all that hazardous nuclear waste that had been sitting around military depots collecting dust. The long-
term results of exposure? Gulf War
veterans are afflicted with many illnesses. They've dubbed the ailment: "The Gulf War Syndrome."
Though the war ended in a matter of
calendar weeks, it continues to kill more than a decade later.

3. When GHWB called a wrap on the war, he rubber-stamped Saddam's reign and allowed it to continue.

4. To further punish Hussein,he
imposed sanctions against Iraq. Sanctions that made not one whit of difference in the dictator's day-to-day life, but are directly
responsible for the deaths of 1-1.5 million Iraqi civilians. To this very day, these sanctions are
in place. 3,000 Iraqi CHILDREN
die each month. They die of dysentry, diarhhea, and a host of of other easily preventable illnesses. These deaths are brought on by the destruction of Iraq'a infrastructure during the war and denial of medicene through sanctions, the shortage of food brought about by sanctions. (By the way, these sanctions are imposed in direct violation of the Geneva Accord.)
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I had
no idea said sanctions were in place until three months ago.
How can any government on God's green earth rationalize, much less, justify such barbaric treatment of civilians? Our
quarrel was with Saddam, not civilians. Babies yet to be born
are being made to pay for Saddam's disfavor. Why did GHWB leave him
in power! Why does our government continue to kill CHILDREN in our name?!

5. I agree Saddam Hussein is a menace who should be disarmed.
But it is ludicrous to believe those who suggest he poses a greater threat than any other
third-world dictator with an
appetite for WMD.

According to our own intelligence
agencies Directors Iraq has no ties to Osama bin Forgotten and
played no role in orchestrating or executing the events which transpired 9.11.

On the other hand,
Iraq DOES sit atop the second-largest oil reserve in the world.

Mr. Bush DOES have a long memory,
and a life-long held reputation as
a privileged, arrogant bully. A direct quote: "And besides, he did try to kill my dad."
(Apparently he failed to make note of, or forgot that his wife Laura was seated beside dear old dad in the car during the failed assasination attempt.)

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!
You've slumbered long enough!
Be quick! For twilight is giving way to darkness..

I leave you with these words:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that
we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but it is morally treasonable to the American
public." --Theodore Roosevelt--


May God Help Us All-- Shiloh

Posted by Shiloh @ 11/17/2002 08:52 PM PST

First I must state that I am not American, but i believe this gives me a clearer view of the situation.
I am not subjected to the media saturation that seems to have taken control. I myself believe there is more then the reasons stated for going to war.
As a country you must band together
to try and find the truth hidden under the propaganda. As a world power it is your obligation.If I, as an 18 year old Australian can see this it wont take long untill the rest of humanity see's this as well

Posted by Casey @ 11/17/2002 06:28 PM PST

i myself respect your choice to do this i hope u give this letter to the president

Posted by piggy @ 11/17/2002 06:00 PM PST

hmm america invades iraq, nuclear exchanged,or none. america doesn't invade iraq, nuclear exchange, or none. to hell im moving to the bahamas

Posted by Patrick @ 11/17/2002 05:40 PM PST

Did anyone ever notice that the last bush was also a warmonger?

Sins of the fathers become that of the sons, and stay thereafter for the remaining life to come till they eventually kill the son and transfer thanks to indoctrination.

Posted by Plutonium @ 11/17/2002 05:32 PM PST

All the world is black with its Monstrosities and Sins. It may be that human kind may lack the stability to hold itself together. One thing is for sure...we are in a whirlwind of chaos that may yet send us down the path of destruction, may god have mercy on us

Posted by Patrick @ 11/17/2002 05:29 PM PST

bush is leading us to the worst war we have ever had, we must take a stand against his psychotic actions

Posted by husky @ 11/17/2002 04:47 PM PST

I respect Mr. Penn as an actor. What we need is support for this great country of ours even if it means backing up Bush. What I am reading are people who want to walk away from a problem that has been going on for a long time. We must back our president up and not let us just close our eyes and wish it will go away. Let's show some back-bone for this beautiful country of ours!

Posted by Ash @ 11/17/2002 04:41 PM PST

The most I ever paid to masturbate is probably about 20 bucks (for a video). 56k seems a little steep.

Posted by Heywood Jablomi @ 11/17/2002 04:40 PM PST

Bleeding Heart Liberals.

War cannot be avoided by decrying peace and begging off. The bully on the school field does not stop hitting you because you ask him not to. The Nazi's didn't stop their invasion because someone said please don't. Iraq has used stalling tactics to push the time limit as far as they can... WHY? Is it so that they can laugh behind their beards at us? Or is it so that they can hide bombs and the like in the middle of the fucking desert?

This entire "Everyone want's peace not war" is bullshit and everyone knows it. Mankind is a predator, it preys upon it's self and has done so since time began. If you wish for military privation look through the history books of the world, wars, wars, and more wars. War brings technological advancement. The computer you sit before right now was developed to read draft cards. The car you drive was seen as a way to move troops from one location to another before the rest of us got hold of it.

War advances civilization, people understand it and are afraid to say it. As a military historian I will say it and ignore none of it. Should we go to war with Iraq? Yes, lets invade the country if they prove to be lying. They have lied in the past, and been caught. They have lied in the present and are doing so now.

Don't believe the liberal bullshit that people spout out everywhich way they can. There is no vast right wing conspiracy to ruin the world and let the jews run it.

Believe me, the world is complex enough without us inventing more reasons to hate ourselves.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 03:39 PM PST

Bleeding Heart Liberals.

War cannot be avoided by decrying peace and begging off. The bully on the school field does not stop hitting you because you ask him not to. The Nazi's didn't stop their invasion because someone said please don't. Iraq has used stalling tactics to push the time limit as far as they can... WHY? Is it so that they can laugh behind their beards at us? Or is it so that they can hide bombs and the like in the middle of the fucking desert?

This entire "Everyone want's peace not war" is bullshit and everyone knows it. Mankind is a predator, it preys upon it's self and has done so since time began. If you wish for military privation look through the history books of the world, wars, wars, and more wars. War brings technological advancement. The computer you sit before right now was developed to read draft cards. The car you drive was seen as a way to move troops from one location to another before the rest of us got hold of it.

War advances civilization, people understand it and are afraid to say it. As a military historian I will say it and ignore none of it. Should we go to war with Iraq? Yes, lets invade the country if they prove to be lying. They have lied in the past, and been caught. They have lied in the present and are doing so now.

Don't believe the liberal bullshit that people spout out everywhich way they can. There is no vast right wing conspiracy to ruin the world and let the jews run it.

Believe me, the world is complex enough without us inventing more reasons to hate ourselves.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 03:38 PM PST

more war = more gooder

Posted by K @ 11/17/2002 03:24 PM PST

Thank the universe for this forum. This is the freedom of speech my and your fore fathers and mothers died for. Did anyone forget that the US has bases all over the world? And a Rapid Reaction Force ready to move massive personnel and material anywhere in the world in a matter of days? The New World Order is fast coming upon us, and Bush would like to own that piece of history. As a Canadian, its unnerving to think that with all the rich oil reserves in Alberta, the hydroelectric cache in Quebec, and the fresh water supplies as they exist, Bush's govt. wil likely want those too. Now if he can only invent a catastrophe that legitimates his incurrsion here. Thank you Sean Penn for beginning this watershed of thought in a time of strangled expression. I am making your letter into a T-shirt so everyone can read it for a lot longer than the newspaper would print it. Where are the superheroes now...

Toronto, Ontario,Canada

Posted by Sean McBride @ 11/17/2002 03:14 PM PST

Thank the universe for this forum. This is the freedom of speech my and your fore fathers and mothers died for. Did anyone forget that the US has bases all over the world? And a Rapid Reaction Force ready to move massive personnel and material anywhere in the world in a matter of days? The New World Order is fast coming upon us, and Bush would like to own that piece of history. As a Canadian, its unnerving to think that with all the rich oil reserves in Alberta, the hydroelectric cache in Quebec, and the fresh water supplies as they exist, Bush's govt. wil likely want those too. Now if he can only invent a catastrophe that legitimates his incurrsion here. Thank you Sean Penn for beginning this watershed of thought in a time of strangled expression. I am making your letter into a T-shirt so everyone can read it for a lot longer than the newspaper would print it. Where are the superheroes now...

Posted by Sean McBride @ 11/17/2002 03:13 PM PST

Great Letter, written from the heart. In the UK most people think that Bush is a bigger threat to the world then Saddam.

It would be great if this letter is send to the Guardian Newspaper to be published,so that the UK public could read it.

Posted by Zee @ 11/17/2002 02:41 PM PST

Bleeding Heart Liberals.

War cannot be avoided by decrying peace and begging off. The bully on the school field does not stop hitting you because you ask him not to. The Nazi's didn't stop their invasion because someone said please don't. Iraq has used stalling tactics to push the time limit as far as they can... WHY? Is it so that they can laugh behind their beards at us? Or is it so that they can hide bombs and the like in the middle of the fucking desert?

This entire "Everyone want's peace not war" is bullshit and everyone knows it. Mankind is a predator, it preys upon it's self and has done so since time began. If you wish for military privation look through the history books of the world, wars, wars, and more wars. War brings technological advancement. The computer you sit before right now was developed to read draft cards. The car you drive was seen as a way to move troops from one location to another before the rest of us got hold of it.

War advances civilization, people understand it and are afraid to say it. As a military historian I will say it and ignore none of it. Should we go to war with Iraq? Yes, lets invade the country if they prove to be lying. They have lied in the past, and been caught. They have lied in the present and are doing so now.

Don't believe the liberal bullshit that people spout out everywhich way they can. There is no vast right wing conspiracy to ruin the world and let the jews run it.

Believe me, the world is complex enough without us inventing more reasons to hate ourselves.

Duncan

Posted by Duncan @ 11/17/2002 02:38 PM PST

So much has already been said here that I feel it's almost beside the point to try to add my own words to the pot. While I disagree to a certain extent with some of Mr. Penn's naiveties, or am perhaps more of a pessimist with regards to the situation than he, I applaud his letter. I applaud the words of any person who stands up and voices his or her objection to the current madness being unfolded by certain representatives of this country, who seem to be of the opinion that we, the people, are little more than a broad sea of droning, senseless, thoughtless backs on which to lay the burden.

I only wish it were as easy for the voices of those of who oppose the coming war to be heard as clearly, as loudly, as persuasively, as the voices of those who threaten to bring it down upon us all. Mr. Penn can pay $56,000 dollars to have his words printed in a public forum - this is far out of the reach of many of us. It would take me nearly five years to raise that much money, and to do so I would have to give up living under a roof, driving a car, wearing clothes, eating. I would have to devote every single dime I earned to the cause, and still it would take me close to half a decade, and does that amount look like in comparison to the billions of dollars flowing between the news organizations, the corporations, the goverment itself? Mr. Penn paid $56,000, and what did he buy? One page in one newspaper for one day? How much money must it take to run the 24-hour news channels, with their pro-war agenda running day after day after day, the headlines of major papers in every city, the weekly, the bi-weekly, the monthly magazines?

Mandy mentioned something about being "appalled" when "idiots" from other countries criticize people in the states. I'm awfully afraid that for a very long time to come, "idiots" in other countries will be asking how Americans could possibly have done nothing to stop or even to speak out against a leader gone mad with power, terrorizing other nations indiscriminately, that for many many years to come, across the world, it will be thought "Americans killed (Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Koreans? How long will the list finally be and who will it finally comprise?)" in the early years of the 21st century the way "Germans killed the Jews" during the first half of the 20th. If we, as Americans, stand by and allow those in power to kill as they see fit, to serve their own goals in our name, if we as Americans do nothing to stop the power-mad, to voice our dissent, there will be very good reason to be appalled. Appalled with ourselves for allowing silence to equal consent. I hope that when my children and grandchildren ask me "why didn't you do anything to stop them?" I will be able to honestly answer: "I tried," but even more fervently, I hope they never need ask.

Posted by Hacek Girl @ 11/17/2002 02:07 PM PST

So much has already been said here that I feel it's almost beside the point to try to add my own words to the pot. While I disagree to a certain extent with some of Mr. Penn's naiveties, or am perhaps more of a pessimist with regards to the situation than he, I applaud his letter. I applaud the words of any person who stands up and voices his or her objection to the current madness being unfolded by certain representatives of this country, who seem to be of the opinion that we, the people, are little more than a broad sea of droning, senseless, thoughtless backs on which to lay the burden.

I only wish it were as easy for the voices of those of who oppose the coming war to be heard as clearly, as loudly, as persuasively, as the voices of those who threaten to bring it down upon us all. Mr. Penn can pay $56,000 dollars to have his words printed in a public forum - this is far out of the reach of many of us. It would take me nearly five years to raise that much money, and to do so I would have to give up living under a roof, driving a car, wearing clothes, eating. I would have to devote every single dime I earned to the cause, and still it would take me close to half a decade, and does that amount look like in comparison to the billions of dollars flowing between the news organizations, the corporations, the goverment itself? Mr. Penn paid $56,000, and what did he buy? One page in one newspaper for one day? How much money must it take to run the 24-hour news channels, with their pro-war agenda running day after day after day, the headlines of major papers in every city, the weekly, the bi-weekly, the monthly magazines?

Mandy mentioned something about being "appalled" when "idiots" from other countries criticize people in the states. I'm awfully afraid that for a very long time to come, "idiots" in other countries will be asking how Americans could possibly have done nothing to stop or even to speak out against a leader gone mad with power, terrorizing other nations indiscriminately, that for many many years to come, across the world, it will be thought "Americans killed (Iraqis? Iranians? Palestinians? Koreans? How long will the list finally be and who will it finally comprise?)" in the early years of the 21st century the way "Germans killed the Jews" during the first half of the 20th. If we, as Americans, stand by and allow those in power to kill as they see fit, to serve their own goals in our name, if we as Americans do nothing to stop the power-mad, to voice our dissent, there will be very good reason to be appalled. Appalled with ourselves for allowing silence to equal consent. I hope that when my children and grandchildren ask me "why didn't you do anything to stop them?" I will be able to honestly answer: "I tried," but even more fervently, I hope they never need ask.

Posted by Hacek Girl @ 11/17/2002 01:47 PM PST

Why should we attack Iraq? According to Bush:
1. Saddam used chemical weapons on his own people.
2. Saddam treats an ethnic minority harshly.
3. Saddam has WPDs.
4. Saddam has a fleet of unmanned ariel vehicles.
5. Saddam supports Osama Bin Laden.

Number 3 is completely unproven without any evidence as of yet and is most likely untrue, and Numbers 4 and 5 are LIES LIES LIES LIES LIES. Please note then that:
1. The US has tested nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons on foreign nationals as well as our service members and civilians hundreds or thousands of times.
2. Disregarding slavery, Jim Crow laws, women not being able to vote until 1920, the imprisonment of loyal Japanese-Americans in concentration camps in WWII and the sale of all their worldly belongings and properties, and other historical mistreatment of ethnic minorities, today Muslims and people of Middle-Eastern descent are followed, watched, bugged, etc as well as simply detained without any Constitutional and Human Rights.
3. We have the worlds largest stockpile of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons of mass destruction, and are currently developing new and improved versions of these, as well as lasers and "people zappers" - microwave guns.
4. We have a fleet of unmanned ariel vehicles capable killing anyone anywhere anytime, against all laws.
5. We supported Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, the Taliban, etc.
Go to www.AmericanStateTerrorism.com and read about the more than 250 acts over the last fifty years by our government that meet the FBI's defination of terrorism and are why the rest of the world hates and fears us.
Then read about the Bush family at www.bushwatch.net, they were American Nazi bankers in WWII (they had a company siezed under the Trading With the Enemy Act but got it back). They also are connected to the Bin Laden family. This is all extensively researched and documented. Go to www.whatreallyhappened.com to find out what the government censors won't show you on T.V. or in the newspapers. Read about how they are going to spend 200 million dollars on a super data bank on every available piece of information, and a convicted felon (former Admiral John Poindexter, from the '80s Iran-Contra scandal, convicted of lying to Congress and the American public, amongst other charges of wrongdoing.) In conclusion, the Federal Government is Big, Bad, and Evil and it is gunning after YOU! If you don't believe me, do some some reading and research, or continue to believe the propaganda and lies that your beloved television brainwashes you into human sheep with.

Posted by Pall Mall @ 11/17/2002 01:39 PM PST

For those that support President Bush, I would like to see a response to the following Factual historical information : Prescott Bush, the grandfather had his assets seized under The Trading with the Enemy Act in 1942! The Bush fortune was not made from oil, but from financing Hitler and his war machine. Wait, wait, before you answer read this link: www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm . So, if the media is supplying you with the truth, why has this NEVER been mentioned? Have you been aware of this at any time previous to this posting? Do you see any underlying historical context now?

Posted by SuppressedTruth @ 11/17/2002 01:34 PM PST

For those that support President Bush, I would like to see a response to the following Factual historical information : Prescott Bush, the grandfather had his assets seized under The Trading with the Enemy Act in 1942! The Bush fortune was not made from oil, but from financing Hitler and his war machine. Wait, wait, before you answer read this link: www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm . So, if the media is supplying you with the truth, why has this NEVER been mentioned? Have you been aware of this at any time previous to this posting? Do you see any underlying historical context now?

Posted by SuppressedTruth @ 11/17/2002 01:29 PM PST

I live in Britain, & I am very surprised that more people are not following Penns lead.Can you not see the truth? Unfortunately our glorious leader is up Bushes butt, so we are in this together. I think that when the weapons inspectors cannot find any weapons, they will either lie or another sept. 11th or Bali will happen. Surely you do not believe the media propaganda about 09/11?.
There is just too many loose ends, however you seem to have believed the story about who killed Kennedy for long enough.Also, why does the ordinary (american) man in the street not object to the amount of money your goverment is pouring into israel?
My fear is that after Iraq, bush will go after somebody else, possibly us one day.
Open your eyes people and see the truth before its too late- or has a pointless war in Asia taught you nothing.

Posted by Puppyman @ 11/17/2002 01:11 PM PST

I admire Sean Penns guts to be truthful, to the degree that he can be without all of the factual information. Plain and simple, the truth is out there for all to see however, in the USA, our prostituted media will not tell Americans the truth. Many web sites fit the pieces together: www.whatreallyhappened.com www.infowars.com www.prisonplanet.com
www.rense.com
www.copvcia.com
www.thepowerhour.com
Listen to truth internet radio at www.gcnlive.com 24 hours a day. The sad fact of the matter is...We the People are being set up for retaliation by Russia & China in the not too distant future. When the world has had enough of the USA and it's imperalism those two countries will know it is time to attack without the fear of worldwide retaliation. Don't believe the hype that these two countries are our allies. Notice the word...al-lies! Americas government has been hyjacked by blood/money thirsty globalists hell bent on a mission of a "New World Order." Research this out for yourselves. Most of all wake up, then wake up others and prepare. The Bush proposal for 200,000 - 250,000 troops for Iraq & 265,000 for American Cities & towns should tell you something. May God have mercy on us all.

Posted by TripleE @ 11/17/2002 12:39 PM PST

I admire Sean Penns guts to be truthful, to the degree that he can be without all of the factual information. Plain and simple, the truth is out there for all to see however, in the USA, our prostituted media will not tell Americans the truth. Many web sites fit the pieces together: www.whatreallyhappened.com www.infowars.com www.prisonplanet.com
www.rense.com
www.copvcia.com
www.thepowerhour.com
Listen to truth internet radio at www.gcnlive.com 24 hours a day. The sad fact of the matter is...We the People are being set up for retaliation by Russia & China in the not too distant future. When the world has had enough of the USA and it's imperalism those two countries will know it is time to attack without the fear of worldwide retaliation. Don't believe the hype that these two countries are our allies. Notice the word...al-lies! Americas government has been hyjacked by blood/money thirsty globalists hell bent on a mission of a "New World Order." Research this out for yourselves. Most of all wake up, then wake up others and prepare. The Bush proposal for 200,000 - 250,000 troops for Iraq & 265,000 for American Cities & towns should tell you something. May God have mercy on us all.

Posted by TripleE @ 11/17/2002 12:36 PM PST

Dubya is not stupid. Well, at least I mean his advisors aren't. He is following a cunning strategy to hand over the lower 95% to the upper 5%. Strip them of their Rights, take away their voting choices, and voila! I just saw a documentary on how the US military forced troops to sit in foxholes, wearing only regular military clothing, 2500 yards (a mile and a half) from nuclear bomb testing. Most had medical problems the next day, like bleeding gums or screwed up guts. Teeth starting falling out in two weeks, and most of the children they had later suffered from various defects. I saw another TV program where US did the same thing to some rural town a little farther away, and most of those folks got cancer. The US set off more than 1,000 of these tests. It seems to me the US knowingly did a lot worse to its own citizens than WTC, and is now willing to plow the blood of 250,000 more of its own innocent citizens (conscripted military) into foreign soil to save 5c per gallon of gasoline. The White House is loaded with exboardmembers of major Big Oil, and so now we're going after Iraq. Supposedly, we're going after Iraq because we don't know for sure they don't have nuclear, chemical and biological WMD. So then that other axis of evil, North Korea pipes up, and frantically waving its hand, says "Forget about you don't know whether Iraq has anything. We do, for sure." So, then what's our response? Well, um, er, uh, then we don't like the way they wrote the letter capitulating to resuming inspections. So there. And now US policy is to vaporize suspects, such as the guys riding in a car in Yemen. No inconveniences like an arrest and trial to get in the way, just execution. Kind of makes you wonder about 911.

Posted by USCitizenInAustralia @ 11/17/2002 12:33 PM PST

I ADMIRE YOUR BALLS SEAN!!!!!!

Posted by STEVE @ 11/17/2002 12:02 PM PST

The problem is that america belives it, as teh strongest power in the world, has the right to bully and push other countries around.

America has NO right to police other countries.America did not mind when they used the first atomic weapons on Heroshima, did they?

Americans have every right to believ in their country, but they, as their counmtry, have no right to force their beliefs upon others (I.E. Democracy works, ect.) Forcing these beliefs upon others through war is terrorism,no?

America is what it is trying to destroy by attacking Iraq,and any other country.

Bush chooses to use subtle threats instead of admiting he wishes to attack.

-= The world Needs peacekeepers, not police officers. =-

Posted by Navek @ 11/17/2002 11:47 AM PST

How sad that Mr. Penn has no sence of history and how the world truly works. Similar words were used in the arguments to appease Adolph Hiltler. The picture of Chamberland waving his document signed by Hitler and the words "...peace in our time..." need to be remembered by all as we remember the horrors of WW II. Let us pray for peace and be prepared for war.

Posted by Michael @ 11/17/2002 11:11 AM PST

Im a nobody in a small country having my exams tomorrow.. but i just couldn't help it but to post a short note to praise Sean Penn. I like his acting, but now i admired him even more for his courage to criticise Mr Bush upfront. So many people had focus on the 'bigger picture' and lost interest in the fundamentals of life. So much war films, history lessons we've read as a civilised generations and yet we always reconciled with our barbaric ancestry blood rage. So little we understand the pain of war, the cries of little children, the living crying out for the dead. the incineration of painstakingly built infrastructure, the destruction of a better future. Who has the rights to quench the light of happiness from another? Our Lord tears for the death of his beloved sons..

Posted by Chris @ 11/17/2002 10:32 AM PST

I really don't understand why people feel this way. It was a well written letter but it is insane to have the belief that war should be avoided because "innocents" will die. Many more will die if we take the moral high road Mr. Penn diplomatic way. So he is saying that we should just let them deal with it them self. What does that say about the United States? It would be abandoning more of our values if we just let a dictatorship slaughter thier own people and allowed to keep building weapons of mass destruction. We have tryed that already, infact we are still trying that. Go farther back in history and look what happened during the events that lead to world war 2. People like Sean Penn that have the point of view "War should be avoided at all cost" existed then too, its nothing new. But this way of trying to force diplomacy only buys time. Sean Penn talking about abandoning previous lessons of history, how ironic is that, because that is what he wish's to do and this is insane to me, anyone that feels that way I think is insane, but that is how these outspoken rich liberals think, thier out of touch with reality. I fully support the president of the United States in any course of action he takes. Anyone that thinks the president is a moron because he is not the Clinton "Lie and say anything that makes them happy so they will like me". I'm starting just to rant now but I had to get that out there. Everyone learn from history, war can not be avoided when it knocks on your back door, and you just cover your ears and hope it goes away, because it will never go away if you just leave it alone.

Posted by Dragob Navanod @ 11/17/2002 10:22 AM PST

It's very interesting reading all of your comments. Sean Penn does make many good points! What does being a hippie have to do with Sean Penn's comments red bard? I know war is in the air and there’s tension between countries and nations but hear this: peace will create peace
And war will create war. It's as simple as that. Our goal in life should be to live without fear of our brothers and sisters killing each other over beliefs. So I beg of you all, come out of your unconsciousness and see the world as it should be...free of the deep throat belief pushers and full of kind people that want to help each other in there time of need.
As a matter of fact, I think I'll go down to the Salvation Army and make a donation of clothes for the needy.... P.S. legalize marijuana

Posted by e duyette from quincy mass @ 11/17/2002 09:57 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:22 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:21 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:20 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:20 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:20 AM PST

Hey everyone. ive just spent so long reading all these comments, and i just wanted to say that some are really disturbing. As a patriotic american, i beleive that Bush is a HORRIBLE PERSON. Truely. He is blind, deaf and dumb. I feel very pround of my country when i read comments agreeing with Sean Penn. Though not someone who fantasizes about celebrities or idolizes them, i beleive that his letter could not have been truer. I know that this letter will probably never get read after so many other comments--who would read all those? but to whomever reads this, i am ashamed of my country's goverment. It saddens and scares me at the same time. Not only has our governement bluntly ignored history, but as the most powerful organization in the world, it has twisted our consitution and lunged into dictatorial madness. Somehow when a (sorry) few thousand poor souls are slaughtered here in the states, we dont stop greiving for the lost patriots for years. But why is the only reference to death in other countries where America is the terrorist a single outstanding number in the everyday newspaper?
More people need to stand up, show their opposition, oppose the rednecks who are blind and use stupid insults to get rid of their idiot rage or something. its like, go fuck your cow or something and leave us to think!!!
I wish more people were like sean penn. Good job.
oh, one more thing. From the bottom of my soul, I HATE BUSH.

Montana, age 14.

Posted by Surferbabe @ 11/17/2002 08:19 AM PST

that article blew ass, and all of you that are bleeding hearts that dont want to go to war with iraq should be slapped up side the head you stupid pieces of human waste

Posted by player24 @ 11/17/2002 07:14 AM PST

I thought it was a great letter. And, to the 'BiggSizz'. I don't know where you've been, but im pretty sure that there are plenty of murderer's in America that have gained widespread fame with their actions. For example, Charles Manson. He sure as hell wasn't as popular before he killed a few people. Now he's selling records and gainging a bigger fanbase. Not to say I agree, I think he's a murderer and should be punished accordingly. But, I do believe your comment about killers just being animals is inncorrect. I'm pretty sure that the last time I checked, every person belonging to the human race was an animal. And, I can guarantee that if you were put in any certain situation, you would defend yourself in any way possible...even if its only self defense in your eyes. Thanks.

Posted by Canvas Of Flesh @ 11/17/2002 05:46 AM PST

I thought it was a great letter. And, to the 'BiggSizz'. I don't know where you've been, but im pretty sure that there are plenty of murderer's in America that have gained widespread fame with their actions. For example, Charles Manson. He sure as hell wasn't as popular before he killed a few people. Now he's selling records and gainging a bigger fanbase. Not to say I agree, I think he's a murderer and should be punished accordingly. But, I do believe your comment about killers just being animals is inncorrect. I'm pretty sure that the last time I checked, every person belonging to the human race was an animal. And, I can guarantee that if you were put in any certain situation, you would defend yourself in any way possible...even if its only self defense in your eyes. Thanks.

Posted by Canvas_Of_Flesh @ 11/17/2002 05:45 AM PST

"Sean Peen is a whacked out hippie nard humper

Posted by The Red BarD @ 11/16/2002 11:36 PM PST"

Some people sure don't like me.

"I noticed some ignorant person said the terrorists are just people that need to be heard. They are people the want to be heard and gain the attention by killing other people. They are murders"

Imagine you grew up living in a town that has belonged to your ancestors for two thousand years. Imagine that one day, a bunch of people show up who say, "You gotta leave! This is our land now!" You resist by questioning their right to do this. They ignore your inquiry. You resist by refusing to leave. They remove you forcefully. No matter what you do, they won't listen. What can you do? You can show them that they can't just come and strip you of your land and dignity. You can fight back. Thus is the legacy of Palestine.

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/17/2002 03:59 AM PST

eat cheese!

Posted by ryan @ 11/17/2002 01:55 AM PST

Some very good comments. However, some of the pro-Bush comments just merely prove how down right ignorant and easily brainwashed people can be. I commend Sean, Bush's rhetoric is not only lacking in any kind of sensitive understanding about issues concerning the present future and the future of generations to come, but the way he talks to the rest of the world, showing little respect, marginalising anyone who dares to question him,(enemies and allies) just facilitates more hatred from the rest of the world (including the rest of the west). The UN inspectors should be in Iraq and will be very soon but I don't think this will prevent war. An Al Gore administration would have handled it differently. If we, the world manage to see another presidential election then I am sorry to say I have little faith in the American people's capability to actually NOT vote for Bush. A completely fresh idea would to have the 1st female president....a Clinton perhaps! The world would certainly take a change for the better if the powers that be showed some kind of real compassion to the rest of the world with no strings attached, instead of repeatedly bullying everything and everyone into a reluctant submission, thus breeding more contempt and hate. Good luck America. I hope common sense will rear its head very quickly before it is too late.

Posted by Craven @ 11/17/2002 01:39 AM PST

HEEEK HEEEEK

Posted by hyuk hyuk @ 11/17/2002 12:46 AM PST

HEEEK HEEEEK

Posted by hyuk hyuk @ 11/17/2002 12:45 AM PST

Sup...this...letter..is KOO.
I don't understnad but its Koo.

Posted by Paul @ 11/17/2002 12:05 AM PST

Sean Peen is a whacked out hippie nard humper

Posted by The Red BarD @ 11/16/2002 11:36 PM PST

Sean Penn has just done the country a favor in speaking out against the President, but without blatantly insulting him. I salute you Mr. Penn.

Posted by Keith @ 11/16/2002 11:33 PM PST

Sean Penn has just done the country a favor in speaking out against the President, but without blatantly insulting him. I salute you Mr. Penn.

Posted by Keith @ 11/16/2002 11:27 PM PST

I think Mr. Sean Penn payed a lot of money to have someone help him with this letter. I noticed some ignorant person said the terrorists are just people that need to be heard. They are people the want to be heard and gain the attention by killing other people. They are murders. If someone in this country were to kill even 10 people our citizens would not say "hey, this guy just has some issues lets hear what he has to say." The difference between civil minded people and animals is the knowledge to deal with your problems in a civil way. I think the Busy administration has done all they can to solve this situation outside of war. When you are dealing with people who pull the trigger first and ask questions later you have to act quickly. I understand that by taking this coarse of action American soldiers will lose their lives. I have many friends in the military as well as reletives. They, like any other soldier worth his weight, will tell you they would rather fight a battle for their country rather than stand by and watch innocent Americans being killed. They signed up to fight, let them do what they volunteered for in order to help preserve the lifestyle we have grown accustom to. The longer we stand dormant the stronger and bolder the opposition grows. History has shown the these opponents cannot be dealt with in diplomatic fashions.

Posted by BiggSizz @ 11/16/2002 11:24 PM PST

A lot of very good comments are here, especially the one from the soldier- insurrection in the Army! Bush is planning to attack Iraq- the only way to solve that is to strengthen Iraq until it can defend itself against him. This will probably be the only way to show him that he cannot go around trying to stick his huge American Army into every little slit he can find. If Iraq turns into a second Vietnam, I'm going over to fight for Hussein. Because it doesn't matter how bad he is, that's not even the point! And yes, I'm American. Know this, Bush, YOUR COUNTRY HATES YOU! YOU ARE A FASCIST TYRANT!

Posted by Llegovski @ 11/16/2002 10:57 PM PST

Its official. we have declared war on iraq without the consent of all americans. Being that history envelops a kind of repetative nature, my beliefs are that this war is going to fall out on 1 of 2 things...the end of either humanity or the way of life as we know it. looking into any religion, any history, and any mythical story, we see that the negativity that is put forth only comes back to us even stronger. hate breeds hate. violence breeds violence and so on.Sean Penn is a peace loving man and i respecr him for his efforts however ill-reputed they might have been. Osama is supposed to be muslim as is sodam.George bush is supposed to be a christian. both religions that teach the princaple that killing is either a sin or is restricted for the fact of the karmatic belief of the aboriginal man.none show these attributes and in fact endevor the complete opposite using innoscence as thier pawns.it hurts so much to see all of this bull$h1t thickening as we never know when it will come to our homes and disturb our peace. But in my belief, the illuminati being the power of the world, we are all pawns for the world powers.In any belief, whether you are christian, jewish, muslim,buddhist, wiccan, asiatic or follow any other system of belief, we need to come together and sort out the differences and stop with the petty bickering on who is right or wronge. we need to stop with the wars whether its in iraq or commenting the intelligence of someone that disagrees with your truth on this website. remember we, as individuals, have all our own perspectives on all subjects of contraversy, but we can agree on one thing...that we are all of one conciousness and one everlasting energy. From that and only that can we stop the violence and wars and all the other stupidities of life. Temple masons, the trilatral commision, monarchies, and any other form of "rich get richer, poor get poorer." methods of living and controlling need to be demolished. individual acts of kindness, richousness, and bravery need to be upholded and practiced in the home. i hope this gets to some people out there with the heart and soul to vanquish the evil in our lives, because if im the only one....we might just be doomed to slavory, death, or even worse. i love and respect all life.
peace au solom solakem
Randy "the cepre" KryptCepre@aol.com

Posted by KryptCepre @ 11/16/2002 10:21 PM PST

Nice letter sean, too bad not much people paid heed. And $56000? where ever did you get that sort of money? Anyways, being a canadian and a citizen of the free world I can say that I take my life for granted, more often then not I would be pissed and cursing as my favourite hockey teams are losing. I do this on a comfortable couch, a nice home,a can of coke, a bowl full of popcorn, surround sound speakers and more stuff like that, where somewhere else in the world, people are starving and drinking aids and worm infested waters.

Well, what I'm trying to say is, life in all forms is precious,and the taking of it even those who do deserve it is a crappy thing to do.
Who are we to judge who deserves to die. For all we could know Saddam could actually be a good guy but was made a bad guy by American properganda. I really doubt it, but it could happen.I think that we should just destroy all our nukes except for maybe 10 to be kept by the UN so that if anything comes along i.e Aliens or Nazi zombies we can kick their ass.

Well, have to go back to my comfy bed.

Posted by Swiss Army Clock @ 11/16/2002 09:03 PM PST

Its called karma.

Who was the only country to use a nuclear bomb on another country? We have a way of hiding our countries dirty secrects witht this thing called the media.

Posted by Ben also @ 11/16/2002 08:52 PM PST

Its called karma.

Who was the only country to use a nuclear bomb on another country? We have a way of hiding our countries dirty secrects witht this thing called the media.

Posted by Ben also @ 11/16/2002 08:52 PM PST

Its called karma.

Who was the only country to use a nuclear bomb on another country? We have a way of hiding our countries dirty secrects witht this thing called the media.

Posted by Ben also @ 11/16/2002 08:52 PM PST

Has anyone else noticed that those who have posted on this board in favor of Bush's actions tend to curse and use slang and vulgar phrases?

Just a thought...

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/16/2002 08:36 PM PST

It is clear that a very large majority of the population of this planet disapproves of the recent steps this country has been taking. Continuing this course of action will only cause more terrorism towards our nation.

What we need to understand is that terrorists are not monsters. They are people with problems. They are being ignored and they realize that the only way to be heard is to force people to hear them. And they won't stop until people acknowledge them.

Terrorism is never without reason, and never without resovle.

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/16/2002 08:25 PM PST

Notice the ignorant morons who want to nuke the middle east. If only they could realize how ignorant they are...

Good luck in middle school.

Posted by Dirk @ 11/16/2002 08:17 PM PST

I thought that Sean Penn's veiw on our nation's situation with Iraq was very well written out. He is the first famous person i've heard to agree with my belief. Pres. Bush is leading us to certain doom. Declaring war could be a big mistake on his part. War is Hell if NO ONE HAS REALIZED THAT YET. War does NOTHING. September 11th was tragic but millions of people in the middle east are also killed everyday. This conflict is slowly becoming a war on innocent civilians!

Posted by Anonymous writer (HS) @ 11/16/2002 07:50 PM PST

I dont like bush. He knows what he is doing. He wants that oil in Iraq. Think about it North Korea already have nukes so why the hell are we going after Iraq when they wont get a nuke until a year.

Posted by I dont like bush @ 11/16/2002 07:37 PM PST

As a Brazilian and as a citizen of the world, i tell y'all Americans: Except for some people in the US without a broad view on themes related to the world, nobody accepts what Mr. George "Monkey" Bush wants to do. People like George Bush are the ones that generate so much hate from all around the world towards American civilization. A guy like Bush, who wants to, for example, impose a free-trade zone to Brazil, where the only ones really free to trade are Americans, are just disgusting. I'm tired of American government trying to impose its freedom OVER the rest of the world. I'm tired of America's so called "democracy" where nobody but (or not even) the Americans are really free. I'm tired of watching my governmant being forced to do things just because they fear USA. I'm tired of watching American Govt. shooting threats everywhere, to everybody... I really miss Clinton as president, cuz even though he was not perfect, life was much harmonius around the world when he was "da man" in the US. I hate Saddam and he deserves to be punished, but by the right means. What Putin is trying to do lately is admirable, and shows that nowadays US govt. has the power, but not the brains. Wise rulers from many countries of the world are capable of solving this problem. G. Bush is certainly not one of them.

Posted by Mjollnir @ 11/16/2002 07:18 PM PST

There's an intelligent one!

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/16/2002 07:08 PM PST

All of you communist pricks that salute that fucking pussy Sean Pennis can go and live over in that terroristic shithole Afghanistan or Iraq. You tree hugging, pot smoking inbreeders make me want to VOMIT!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Deez Mutha Fuckin Nutz In Yo Mouth @ 11/16/2002 06:57 PM PST

A little note to Lynch: Unrestrained use of nuclear weapons would obviously be a violation of international law. Do you hate the Arab race so much that you want to massacre them all? I recall that Adolf Hitler did something similar in the first half of the twentieth century.

To all: It is quite clear to me that the only way to eradicate terrorism is not through military action, but by policy shifting and negotiations. We were attacked on September 11th because our foreign policy is an oppressive one. If we change our foreign policy and withdraw our military presence from other nations, we can pacify terrorism.

I don't think this will happen, however. It is my belief that the Bush Administration intentionally provoked Al-Qaeda into attacking. After the damage was done, the Administration used the events to rally the support of a population blinded by rage. Now people like Lynch are in full support of the American conquest of the Middle East, and that is exactly what the Bush Administration intends to do. Why? The reason can be summed up into one word: Oil.

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/16/2002 06:56 PM PST

some of you are downright stupid. if you're going to reply, don't use internet lingo (r, u, ppl). this is a serious subject, not a festivity for pompous cheerleaders.

i commend sean for not only being so brave, and open, but for being so intelligent, and aware of the world. ask any other entertainer in the business, and they may only give you three sentences, if -THAT-. they don't know a thing about the situation. they're merely making money off of it.

he paid $56,000 to get a point across. you can't just send a letter to the president and think he's going to read it. it's like writing a list to santa. you'd be stupid to think the actual guy is going to read the damn thing.

his point was to persuade. he didn't want to speak to one person, but everyone. unfortunately, if a piece of text is too long, we tend not to read it out of intimidation, lack of knowledge of the subject, or we're just too indolent to do so.

it seems rude of anyone from any other country to criticize people from the states. the majority of us dislike what is going on, and hate the fact that any of this is going on. it appauls me that so many idiots -- especially the one(s) from canada, can say such things when they don't even live in the country, when they don't even have intellectual conversations with various people of this nation.

i am inspired now. i know that there may just be some hope in having rich actors. because money makes the world go round, in order to have a voice, we must pay to use the loudspeaker.

a great decision on penn's part. what did you want him to use the money for? it could have been much worse.

Posted by mandy @ 11/16/2002 06:21 PM PST

THAT WAS ONE OF THE BEST LETTERS I HAVE EVER READ. IT EXPLAINED WHY SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE TO BE ASSHOLES AND THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THE HELL THERE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN THEY HAVE NO CLUE WHATS GOING ON IN THEIR OWN LIVES.

Posted by MAJIN ADVOCATE @ 11/16/2002 05:01 PM PST

first of all, much respect to Sean Penn. he is absolutely right.all this war is going to cause is war. so they(state run media) say Saddam has nuclear weapons and we need to stop him. why hasnt anyone tryed to stop U.S. we've had nuclear weapons for years and we dont seem to care if it bothers anyone. of course we know the real reason U.S. is sending troops over is because oil not nuclear weapons. just like his daddy dubya has the same staff as his dad and they are the one running the show.his dad didnt get what he wanted why he was over there so now he is using his son to do the job.

Posted by matt @ 11/16/2002 04:47 PM PST

Sean, your a fucking asshole. How could you be so ignorant to the outstanding job the Bush has done. I'd be damn proud if we nuked Iraq, and while were at it, we should nuke every other fucking middle eastern country. Its assholes like you that keep him from doing it, and it will be the fault of asshole like you when were all dead because we didn't take care of business. Fuck You asshole, stop trying to criticize the president, He is the best damn president in a long time. Fuck off asshole!!!!!!!!!1

Posted by Lynch @ 11/16/2002 04:32 PM PST

The only thing more scary than Hussein haveing nuclear wepons is the fact that Bush has the worlds largest supply of them.I do wish that this letter was more wide spread through out the country.People could see that takeing a stand against something they belive in dosen't put them in a negative light.I hope that more and more people would flood the media with letters of outrage like Penn has

Posted by dustin weaver @ 11/16/2002 03:51 PM PST

Maybe you Americans don't realize it but your actions affect other people, try being considerate when your slapping people around who have big nukes. After all we don't live that far away that we can just laugh when you get nuked to hell by your own obliviance to the toes your stepping on.

Posted by Bob The Canadian @ 11/16/2002 03:50 PM PST

The only thing more scary than Hussein haveing nuclear wepons is the fact that Bush has the worlds largest supply of them.I do wish that this letter was more wide spread through out the country.People could see that takeing a stand against something they belive in dosen't put them in a negative light.I hope that more and more people would flood the media with letters of outrage like Penn has

Posted by dustin weaver @ 11/16/2002 03:49 PM PST

you all lie, i fucked Madonna

Posted by freak @ 11/16/2002 03:15 PM PST

madonna fuckers you are idiots. Sean penn has clearly proven that he is aware and knows whats going on in the world. Besides why is bin Laden mad at us? because we were in Iraq. Not that what he did was righteous but neither is what Bush did. How can Bush rip up beautiful landscapes in Alaska driven by oil when even if we do find enough to support ourselves for a long time, it is a majorly finite source. Ofcourse saddam is evil but we're obviously not intimidating him enough. How can we scare him when we have a president with a learning disability who trips over his own feet while in his father's shadow? Most people who read my leeter won't think I'm funny and skip past so for you lowlifes looking for jollies by masturbating to hentai who some how got here, FUCK OFF!!

Posted by Gor @ 11/16/2002 03:13 PM PST

I believe that Mr. Penn is wrong about what the President is doing. We have tried discussing things with Saddam, but he is not listening and he continues to hide things from us, as well as break the rules that we have agreed upon. No, war is not a good thing in any situation, but unfortuently we have no choice. I believe that we need to get Saddam before he gets us. He is so close to developing Nuclear Weapons and if he ever achives his goal, you can guarantee that he will continue helping Al-Queda and quite possibly use those weapons against the United States, as well as other countries around the world.

Posted by Brie @ 11/16/2002 02:38 PM PST

I feel compelled to reply to this.
As a soldier, there is a good chance that I will be involved in the war against Iraq. I feel that with our equipment, we would be sent to commit nothing less than massacre. It pains me to see humanity turned on itself.
We are brothers and sisters. We all share the same red blood, no matter our color, race, nationality, or creed.
No man or woman is better than another, nor are they more worthy of life than those born in other countries.
This world is dying at our hands and here we are, squabbling and threatening to destroy each other. There is no justification for war. There are few men who have been truly evil, and these madmen could not have achieved the atrocities they did if they did not have the support of the people. We cannot condone death and destruction merely because we feel that our comfortable lifestyle is in danger.
We are Americans, but above that, we are human. As humans, it is our mission to make this a better world for our children and their children. Let's not leave our children to a war-torn world riddled with pollution. Let us shed our pride and our fear and step forward and do what needs to be done. It is time for us to forget our grudges and unite as one race - humanity. I have hope that together, we can make this a better world.

Posted by Alexander @ 11/16/2002 02:35 PM PST

I'm an 18 year old male living in New Zealand, and I find it hard to side with any point put forward due to the treatment of the situation by the media. We over here don't get all the information and sides that anyone else would. Damn crappy news stations..... The final conclusion I can make is that war is an option, but one that should NOT be taken. That's all it is, an option. Hell, cropdusting the area with whipped cream is an option too. I'm not living under Bush so I cannot comment on how well he is running things over there. In my opinion, I think that Saddam is treating you guys like idiots. He is stalling, making excuses etc. Kinda like me trying to get out of doing housework. I think the weapon inspectors should be the main assault. Search every nook and cranny. Make sure, no, make 150% sure that there are no weapons of mass destruction lurking there. Because if there are, then Saddam is held accountable and he will be exposed for the tyrant that is he. Well, more so than ever. But bombing just makes it seem as though America is throwing its weight around, bullying people into solutions. Saddam is playing you all for fools, and I hope you catch him in the act and handle the situation with care. Arrest him, arrest anyone that is of any threat to anyone. But don't do as some idiots have been saying, "nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke nuke 'em all nuke all ragheads i wood kick his ass if i waz there nuke 'em all 'cause i am an arrogant 12 year old who doesn't know what he is talkin; about." THAT is what we should be fighting against. So anyways, I don't claim to know the whole story, but from what I've seen on New Zealand news you need to stop the bombing and get Saddam with enough proof to be rid of him and the threat forever.

Posted by Sheep Guy @ 11/16/2002 02:15 PM PST

does anyone remember a little movie called wag the dog

Posted by jesse @ 11/16/2002 01:38 PM PST

george bush is disgusting and it makes me upset to see him leading america into such a grave of stupidity and giving "his" ppl a bad name, its good to see someone like sean penn abusing their position for the right reasons, most celebs would rather just label views to themselves to look good, sean penn is taking risks, AMERICA NEEDS A REAL PRESIDENT or this stupid "lets-bomb-things-right" bush could mean usa taking too many steps back and who knows who would take advantage of that

Posted by Joeca @ 11/16/2002 01:03 PM PST

wow. thank you. finally. someone who clearly and publicly states what i have been screaming at the top of my lungs since i don't know when. well put mr. penn.

Posted by sean hester @ 11/16/2002 12:38 PM PST

Speaking as a european, i am worried. But not about Saddam, brutal dictator that he is, about Bush and gung-ho americans who seem to agree with Saddam that might is right. There are many countries with weapons of mass destruction and i'm sure the US has more than it's share. I don't see Bush talking tough to China about it's human rights violations and the disgaceful invasion of peaceful Tibet 20/30 years ago. Tibet, a country that had less murders a year than New York has in an hour! Unfortunately for Tibet though, it doesn't have vast resources of oil which i think sheds a little light on the subject. As for war on terrorism, Israel has been in breech of UN resolutions for as long as i can remember, occupying Palestinian land illegally and routinely sending in tanks and F15's against rock throwing teenagers. Oh and Israel has the bomb as well, one of the world's worst kept secrets.

Don't get me wrong, something will have to be done about Saddam sooner or later and sooner could be less painful in the long run. He is one of the world's richest individuals whilst the vast majority of his people live in abject poverty.

But the US should be very wary of throwing it's weight around as it has done in Nicaragua and Chile and Panama and Grenada (talk about sledgehammers to crack nuts). The most prosperous nation on earth should be doing far more to help third world countries thus building respect and goodwill and reducing the threat of terrorism. If the US (and the EU i might add) had a genuine ethical foreign policy and stopped relying so much on the unethical and reprehensible arms trade, the world would be a better place. No shit!

I have basicaly copied my missive from earlier on but changed the murder statistics as they were incorrect.

Posted by loorolls pt2 @ 11/16/2002 12:15 PM PST

I agree with this statement. It's pretty much the same thing i would of said. I am a bit saddend. The last poll i checked shoould that a majority of around 55%-60% oppose the coming war with iraq, yet more war hungry republicans won saets in congress. I guess the poll was inaccurate. I guess the whole scenerio frightens me. We have North Korea who openly admits to having a nuclear program and we do nothing. In my opinion, North Korea is the bigger danger than Iraq. A scapegoat is a good answer, but overall i think this war is motivated for the greed of Bush as well as for the greed of corporate america.

Posted by Ben @ 11/16/2002 10:58 AM PST

very deep letter. but i also think that allowing someone like saddam hussien to have weapons of mass destruction is a threat to everybody; especially iraqs neighbours. there is no peaceful way aound the situation

Posted by Xearo @ 11/16/2002 10:34 AM PST

u.s. is driven by fear which is put forward by politicians and expounded by the media. fear = consumption=Huge bucks for big business and politicians. most of whom are in the pockets of commercial corporations. look at enron-totally illegal practices got away with murder. u.s. picks on the poor and disadvantaged in its own country and doesnt make the massively lawbreaking companies culpable for all their pollution and destruction of our resources.
sean penn obviously concerned for mankind ,children, his country and the legacy we leave behind. if we exist as a species in five thousand years what will those people think of our legacy of leaving behind nuclear waste which contaminates for 25,000 years. when we look back 5,000 years wee find pyramids not poison and destruction.

Posted by fingers @ 11/16/2002 10:23 AM PST

hey bean.. its 37 cents to mail a letter hahaah

Posted by dumbass @ 11/16/2002 10:18 AM PST

I'm reading these comments about Sean Penn's letter, and most of them are against what he had to say. This bothers me, but not because the comments are against Sean Penn. It bothers me because virtually none of these comments makes one legitimate point. Swearing and name calling don't make an argument any stronger. The thing that bothers me even more, though, is some of the better responses made to this letter were written by 13 to 16 year old girls. I always had the assumption that the younger portion of our population wasn't supposed to be able to grasp these sorts of political ideas as well as the rest, but I am finding out more and more that this is not necissarily true.

Posted by Paul @ 11/16/2002 09:53 AM PST

some of the ppl who r detained, ARE citizens!!

and facts r not the enemy or truth! facts establish truth, if something is, it is a fact. this website exsists, that is a fact.

Facts r things that can be proven, opinions can not be proven by logic.

Posted by BORG300 @ 11/16/2002 09:46 AM PST

some of the ppl who r detained, ARE citizens!!

and facts r not the enemy or truth! facts establish truth, if something is, it is a fact. this website exsists, that is a fact.

Facts r things that can be proven, opinions can not be proven by logic.

Posted by BORG300 @ 11/16/2002 09:46 AM PST

some of the ppl who r detained, ARE citizens!!

and facts r not the enemy or truth! facts establish truth, if something is, it is a fact. this website exsists, that is a fact.

Facts r things that can be proven, opinions can not be proven by logic.

Posted by BORG300 @ 11/16/2002 09:45 AM PST

some of the ppl who r detained, ARE citizens!!

and facts r not the enemy or truth! facts establish truth, if something is, it is a fact. this website exsists, that is a fact.

Facts r things that can be proven, opinions can not be proven by logic.

Posted by BORG300 @ 11/16/2002 09:45 AM PST

I agree wholly with Mr. Penn. Bush is trying to out do his daddy by going to war with whomever he wants to. Iraq poses no more threat to the united states than a midget in a bikini :) The bottom line is that the united states is trying to police the world and force our beliefs on other countries. I am american, and I currently don't hold very highly our "democracy".

Posted by Marcus Lancaster @ 11/16/2002 09:41 AM PST

I don't believe Bush is in this against Iraq for himself or for oil. American people today (at least the majority, no offense) are always looking for a scapegoat to blame something on, and the President is the prime example. This is how all the BS started about the government knowing about 9/11 long before it happened, and the Democrats will ridicuously exploit this in the next election. George Washington predicted that the nation will be split in two if we turn to political parties in his Farewell Address. And we are.

Posted by Eric Wishnie @ 11/16/2002 08:52 AM PST

You're just like any other dumbass terrorist if you hold the actions of the American Government against the American Public. Wipe us off the face of the earth? Get over yourself you pompous asshole, AMERICANS != AMERICAN GOVERNMENT
A population of less than 1% of America is involved in politics. If you have a tree that makes 100 apples, and 99/100 of them are clean, you throw all of them away? I'm one of the least patriotic Americans, simply because I hate the government and the system we live in. But Americans themselves cannot be held responsible for a fluke President's actions.

Posted by pissed off american @ 11/16/2002 08:23 AM PST

Mr. Penn, if this was for the President, pay 34 cents to mail it instead of $56,000 to publish it.

Posted by bean @ 11/16/2002 08:17 AM PST

Sean you are a dumbass for paying 56,000 dollars to have this letter posted. Anyway, president Bush is another dumbass for wanting to blow everyone off the face of the earth. I really believe that Bush had something to do with 9/11 the reason is because he wanted us to be better citizens to bring everyone together. I don't understand why people think this guy is a good president he is our leader and he makes up words in his speeches. Doesn't that make you wonder. Bush and Bin Laden chill and smoke a lot of bud a large amount of it is coming from afganistan. There's no doubt in my mind that Bush is truly a dumbass. He is going to get us killed.

Posted by CAM @ 11/16/2002 08:02 AM PST

Im a canadian, and i try to follow the political views and opinions of ANY country around the world. And i must say up untill now, i never really explored the "other side" of the debated presented by this letter. And well, i agree with it 100%. Indeed it must be difficult, and strenuos to be the president, but surely there are other alternatives to war. P.L.U.R.
ravers unite

Posted by FilthyPhil @ 11/16/2002 08:00 AM PST

I hate the U.S. its the shittiest country ever. The public is a bunch of fucking idiots that will be swayed by anything they read on the internet, newspaper or hear from a person.

Posted by angry citizen @ 11/16/2002 07:44 AM PST

I think its great for someone to be abe to stand up to politics like that, famous or not. I feel that Bush has done nothing for our country and i want Clinton back lol. If you are actually reading this, thank you and i am only 13 but i have alot of thoughts about politics.lol

Posted by Melissa @ 11/16/2002 07:43 AM PST

I think its great for someone to be abe to stand up to politics like that, famous or not. I feel that Bush has done nothing for our country and i want Clinton back lol. If you are actually reading this, thank you and i am only 13 but i have alot of thoughts about politics.lol

Posted by Melissa @ 11/16/2002 07:35 AM PST

What a dumb conversation this is. Anyone who says Bush is just in it for the oil has got to be out of their mind. Do you know how hard it must be to be president? I doubt it, give him a bit of credit. Vengeful, greedy politicians usually are not elected to the presidency, and I strongly doubt that all Bush wants is to start wars, get revenge and get oil. Some of you have warped ideas on how the world works.

Posted by James @ 11/16/2002 06:35 AM PST

First of all I would like to state the obvious, Bush is not doing this for America; he is doing this for himself. His mindset is I am going to do something that my daddy didn't do. I also believe that there is some sort of monetary gain here by gaining the oil fields of Iraq. People wake up! Bush is an oil man. Plain and simple. I am as patriotic as the next guy and the events of September 11th deeply moved me and angered me. The war against Bin Laden and Afghanistan had to occur,it needed to be done. I believe that this was reflective of Hammurabi's Code which states eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Now out of the blue Bush mentions Saddam and states that he is going to conduct a different type of war. Well that is fine but I tend to see an eerie comparison here. Bush is almost like Ganghis Kahn ravaging through Mongolia, claiming war against all who oppose his ideals. Well Mr. Kahn who is next? Korea,China,India?

Posted by VIPER @ 11/16/2002 06:14 AM PST

Wow, I never knew Sean Penn was so politically inclined...he is the man, telling the president how stupid he is without directly insulting him...now, that's a skill I want to have for if I ever meet him. :) GO SEAN,this is not my comment it the sorry momfuck of Vinren

Posted by shane @ 11/16/2002 05:56 AM PST

You criticize and cuss, I hope you are all proud. Can't a man have his own opinion? Guess not

Posted by . @ 11/16/2002 05:05 AM PST

theres only 1 reason y bush is goin to war its for oil!!!!! that son of a bitch needs to be assinated along with his bum boy tony blair!!! then maybe there would be a chace of world peace!! i dont believe the "weapons of mass destruction" thing 1 bit i mean just how the fuck could saddam get "weapons of mass destruction" he would be lucky to get a spud gun never mind "weapons of mass destruction"

Posted by Asian-Hawk @ 11/16/2002 04:13 AM PST

The USA really needs to have its arse kicked of the face of the Earth. That'd shut 'em up and everyone could live in peace without bloody America fucking everything up.

Posted by Sabani @ 11/16/2002 03:03 AM PST

Bleh, I'm completly against all wars but that letter didn't really touch me, I suppose of Sean Penn would of givin that 56,000 dollars to Noam Chomsky to write Predisent Fuckoff a letter with REAL political knowledge, and reasonable solutions (there weren't even any suggested solutions there), there would be a wider range of people reading this letter and being informed politically.

That's the only way we will abolish war (yes it can happen) is if we ALL know what's going on in thie democracy, ran by demoNcrats, once the people know, the people will take power.

I just want to see some form of mass-media that doesn't blatently lie and comfort the ever depressed and apathetic american public...

But atleast Penn showed some kind of effort, eh?

Posted by In Grind We Crust @ 11/16/2002 03:03 AM PST

IM really suprised what he said, hopefully Bush WILL change his course of action

(KOREA)

Posted by stupid_jester @ 11/16/2002 02:29 AM PST

IM really suprised what he said, hopefully Bush WILL change his course of action

(KOREA)

Posted by stupid_jester @ 11/16/2002 02:29 AM PST

What a fucking political stance? Eh? No, just another fucking sad, and failed, attempt at a publicity stunt ... Sean Penn is still a fuckin retard, maybe that's why he "acted" so fuckin good in that movie "I am Sam" or whatever the fuck it was called. You can really tell he connected with that role, you know. By the way -- guess what, Sean Penn? You just wasted $56,000 of your fuckin money on a letter that will get your point to no one, Bush won't even read it! Let alone one of his advisors, or that person's secretary or that person's fuckin friend's son's friend's uncle's mistress [not wife], for that matter. That $56,000 dollars could have supported about 511 children in those third-world countries FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR, by an average of charitable funds per day. And to think, You wasted it on a fuckin letter that no one of importance will ever read ... tsk tsk tsk. Now, who's the real fool here?

Posted by JiM @ 11/16/2002 12:25 AM PST

I see the Bush Administration's actions as a message to the rest of the world saying "We have a superior military, so you better do what we say." As a communist (a real communist, not a Soviet communist), I see no person as better than any other due to race, sex, ethnicity, nationality or any other factor one is born with. In fact, my personal belief is that the only people who are truly inferior, are those who believe they're superior. I see the proposed invasion of Iraq as not even a conservative action, but as a counter-progressive action. Bush has given rise to an extremely strong (and stubborn) form of nationalism that I have not heard of since the Italian Fascist Party of the '30s and '40s. Not to say that Bush is a fascist, just that the path he is taking seems to be running in the same general direction that the European dictators of World War II took. Just my perspective.

The Red Bard

Posted by The Red Bard @ 11/15/2002 10:35 PM PST

"Bush is alos no violating the rights of the citezens of this country. the ppl who are in detainment camps are not citezens, and there fore by our constitution have no rights that are garunteed by it. would some one plz tell me where and when the government has violated a citezens right since sept 11?" By some one who isnt fooled

How about the US governemnt deporting a Canadian citizen, with SUSPECTED terrorist links, to Syria, where he has now been arrested, as he fled as refugee before coming to Canada. Or the 15 year old Canadian boy who is being held in Guantanamo Bay because his BROTHER was an al-Quedia member? US dosn't violate citizens rights? Gimme a break, it does nothing but.

Posted by Canada Man @ 11/15/2002 09:09 PM PST

"Bush is alos no violating the rights of the citezens of this country. the ppl who are in detainment camps are not citezens, and there fore by our constitution have no rights that are garunteed by it. would some one plz tell me where and when the government has violated a citezens right since sept 11?" By some one who isnt fooled

How about the US governemnt deporting a Canadian citizen, with SUSPECTED terrorist links, to Syria, where he has now been arrested, as he fled as refugee before coming to Canada. Or the 15 year old Canadian boy who is being held in Guantanamo Bay because his BROTHER was an al-Quedia member? US dosn't violate citizens rights? Gimme a break, it does nothing but.

Posted by Canada Man @ 11/15/2002 09:08 PM PST

Well, it was not only a very well written letter, but a testament to the idea that some celebrities carry more than air on their shoulders. I believe war in any case should be avoided (although not out of the question, by any means). Hussein's placement of military bases in his cities guarantees a higher loss of life due to their proximity of many citizens. Is Bush really willing to sacrifice civilians' lives to prove that point that the U.S. can do and say anything?

I've had enough of a government claiming its fairness, and then compensating loss of morality with actions designed to please the average, below-intelligence, vengeful American. Does the product of hate always have to be destruction? How can we build a new world for our children from the ashes of our failure? I want to live my life without shame of being an American; to the rest of the world, I will be known as one of "them" who took action against a minute force despite nearly the entire world's disapproval. As just a sixteen year old girl, my say has little or no effect on the course of action of my President and government...

I fear that I cannot really shape my future because of the upcoming "new war". I don't know what is going to happen to me, my country, or my world. The sad thing is, no matter what, I don't think things will end well. I don't trust Bush's ability to judge the reprocussions of his decisions -- he holds too much power, and too much control over the government, especially now with the Republican majority in the House. Well, those are my thoughts.

Allie

Posted by Allie @ 11/15/2002 09:02 PM PST

every time i look back i see another thing to argue, why do ppl believe that bush controls most of the media, he has plenty of opponents

they only reason why the washinton post paid no attention to him because he is a rambling idiot like madonna, pass this on

Posted by me again @ 11/15/2002 08:25 PM PST

why bring in the cuban missle crisis, penn is a moron, that situation was almost entirely different. kenedy knew the scale of the conflict would affect the whole world, now iraq is different, why? probably cause NO NUCLEIR WEAPONS WILL BE USED, the scale of the conflict and the pretenses of it were different, u had two super powers with massive militaries, and u have leaders who are willing NEGOCIATE. penn shouldnt base his knowledge on tv shows and movies. he should i dunno maybe read books. again i am not a war mongerer i just hate idiots and ppl who blindly follow them. i do not agree with penn, and i do not entirely agree with Mr Bush. but where were you ppl several years ago?
who opposed clinton????
thats right, a lot ppl feel inclined into political action because of sept 11

Posted by sone one who isnt fooled @ 11/15/2002 08:23 PM PST

/////////// ////////// //////////////////////////// /////////
Wow, what a poor letter. I cannot believe how many people are actually impressed with this letter. This is just one more Hollywood moron trying to make a politial statement w/ no backround knowleledge. Personally I am glad that Iraq accepted the UN resolution, but Sadam still needs to be toppled. Listen how can we promote pacifism if the Arab world is not. The Queran, Kuran w/e specifically says, repeatedly, that all Muslims should kill the infedels, and who in their eyes are the infidels, us. (Btw im trying to be consise) Sitting back isn't going to prevent terrorist attacks on America, only action will. While a war will instigate more frequent attacks, im confident in the end they will stop. think aobut it this way, were we at war on Sept. 10th 2001? Bush is not a war hawk, he is genuinely looking for the long term benefit of this country by nipping terrorist supporters in the butt. Dont be fooled by the democrats either. They may say they also want increased security but they are the ones who were blocking acts that would have increased protection for the united states and its citezens. Bush is alos no violating the rights of the citezens of this country. the ppl who are in detainment camps are not citezens, and there fore by our constitution have no rights that are garunteed by it. would some one plz tell me where and when the government has violated a citezens right since sept 11?
\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ /// / // / / // / / // / // / _ __ _ _ _

Posted by Some one who isnt fooled @ 11/15/2002 08:13 PM PST

Although I do agree that there is a middle ground to conflict and peace and that we cant just go off and begin again an old war. History not only has proven that patience and calm minds has diverted disaster before it has also proven that hesitancy can lead to greater disaster. Take in note the beginning of WW2, the "Beer Hall" attack that was lead by Adolf Hitler. His country quickly recognized him as a terrorist and criminal who endangered many lives. However because of leiniancy and hesitance he quickly gained power over the country and lead his people to condemn a race of people that did nothing. The deaths of thousands and millions lay within this simple ideal.
Same war much later, we stayed out of the fighting, however Japan had tageted us and our cheif naval station at the time in Pearl Harbor. We felt that the war that threatened many nations was of no concearn to us yet we were quickly "blind-sided" by the attack that now holds a memorial honoring those who fought and died to try and fend off an attack upon our own homeland. It was a great catastrophy all because we wished not soil our hands with a war that threatened others.
Now I admit, this "New war" is very much different from all others that have been fought. We are no longer fighting a country but instead a hidden sect, group, people who hide in plain sight and care nothing for innocents around them. If confronted the risk of innocent people being harmed is inevitable. Yes it does feel much like any other war, however when we headed into Afghanistan we were not fighting an entire country, The very people of that country came to our aid to end the violent ways of the Taliban.
Now we look toward Saddam, Iraq. We are concearned not only with our protection and security but we know that most people in that region follow Saddam because they fear him. His threats toward us are nothing compared to what he willing would do to his own people, or even neighboring nations. This is what the military is deploying to stop, not a thought of, "You bastards are terrorists" but that we are trying to stop an age old trend of killing off others to keep or even gain further power and control.
However, the UN has sent inspection teams back to Iraq and they are trying to enter these warehouses annd plants to see what is being produced. They have again met with opposition and the debating between Iraq and the UN are becoming heated. It is rumored that the UN is making progress but there still must be precautions in case something should go gravely wrong.

I do not like the idea of war, I hate the idea of "World-wide deployment" of our military, I feel that we should once again maintain Isolationism from the world theater and hold back our own resources. It would help our economy and would definately allow some more time for other items in Congress to come to light. However this cannot be because history will agian repeat itself and we will find ourselves against a wall and in the middle of a war gone wrong.

In this day, it only takes one poison to kill millions, one nuke to annihalate millions, and one button to set off cataclismic events that change the world. Would you be willing to give someone who has been known to work on such things time to complete that button, missle, poison, disease, and so on.
Think of the possibilities, then wonder how many more you cannot think of. That is what keeps me up at night, and that is what makes me think that my views are somewhat obscured by rationalism and the desire for a quick solution.

Searak

Posted by Searak @ 11/15/2002 07:54 PM PST

2 days ago i woke up to hear that Osama Bin Ladin is still alive, and intends to attack Canada. I firmly believe that Bin Ladin is Saddams pupit and that an attack on Iraq will not only affect the US but Canada as well. I do not follow the masses when they say that Mr. Bush is only looking for another term. I do belive he has to act but war is not the answer, that Canadains saw that when we brought 4 of our boys home dead and 8 others injured. Maybe now its time we take the same aproche Kennedy did with Cuba in 1963.

Posted by The Canadian @ 11/15/2002 07:17 PM PST

I don't see how one could possiable convince himself that taking out Hussain would not be the best option now. It is nieve and stupid to think that it is not Americas problem even if his capabilities can't affect us it is obvious that he could lauch a nuclear strike on Israel or any other nation in the middle east. While I am one who thinks our only real middle eastern allie happens to be Israel there are other nations in the middle east that claim thay are our allies and others who quite frankly we can't tell. I feel that we should help the other middle eastern nations take a stand against Hussain even if they are not our allies they are in serious danger(besides once the strike begins we will find out who are allies realy are). And anyway shouldn't Penn go and continue leading his poitless and wastefull life?

Posted by Jason @ 11/15/2002 07:10 PM PST

Sean's letter was very well written, not just because he knew what he was talking about, but he knew that to get Bush's full attention, he was going to have to kiss his ass. Bush seems to really like hearing positive things about himself, im glad Penn used such an effective tool.

Posted by Keri Mirkovich @ 11/15/2002 06:43 PM PST

iI beleive that Sean Penn made a very good argument for his point. And I agree with him completely. I am a Canadian, but we are still involved there, with our soldiers over there as well. I believe that there has to be a better way to solve this than killing the people in Afghanistan and then Middle East. I am not as well informed as some people, but I do not believe that war is a great soloution, but sometimes necissary. In this case, I think that it is not.
As I said before, some people may discount this comment, but up here we too are affected, not just in our futures and the futures of our children, but also people we know here and now. I had teh pleasue of listening to a woman speak, one of the women who lost her husband to the "friendly fire" incident. I do not blame americans for this, I blame the fact that there is a war going on. I do not want to have to live through a war. No one should.
I think that Sean Penn did a wonderful thing to use the influence that he has over so many people for a good cause, and he did it respectfully and honestly. He called a spade a spade and it was great what he did. I think that the media should pay attention to this and make views known and alternatives to war.

--hopeful

Posted by hopeful @ 11/15/2002 06:26 PM PST

A few days ago a car containing the suspected terrorists responsible for the bombing of a US destroyer off the sea of Yemen was blown to bits by an American missile.
Am I the only person who has a problem with this!? A army dispensing summary executions in territories it has no jurisdiction in based solely on suspicions!!?
What happend to innocent until proven guilty? Is this the ''enduring justice'' that bush keeps telling us he intends to implement in these regions?
Why does everybody hate americans? Gee I dont know cleatus, preaching a philosophy yet applying the exact opposite against the ''mud people'', maybe?
I could go on for hours...

Posted by Lucky-7 @ 11/15/2002 06:06 PM PST

i think sean penns letter was very well written and spelled out alot of the topics i have been concerned with. If bush really is going to continue his campaign against "terrorism" and invade Iraq(which im sure he will) then what kind of intelligentleader of a country is he. I can obviously tell much of his motives are driven by his vengeance of his father, not to mention OIL, which is an icredibly important resource guiding bushs foreign policy. I am happy to know there are people besides me who disagree with Bushs idea of dominating the world but its NOT GOING TO FUCKIN HAPPEN. thank you people

Posted by Godamn angry citizen @ 11/15/2002 06:05 PM PST

I'd just like to note, all you simple people, who are insulting Mr. Penn for stating what he believes, and using his status to tell the president what the smarter, preservering Americans and international citizens want, is a great man.

All of you who react ignorantly, and impulsively will one day learn, it gets you very little to hurt someone prematurely, or act on instinct. Or perhaps violence and conflict is all you'll ever know?

I myself, am not American, but I applaud Mr. Penn for taking the time, and effort out of his schedule, to tell President Bush that he IS wrong this time, and as most of the democratic world believes, all the time.

Mozeltoff Sean!

Posted by Dan @ 11/15/2002 05:59 PM PST

i expect that from a bitch and mofo ass lickin bitch

Posted by shane @ 11/15/2002 05:43 PM PST

wow i know seanpen is a fucker

Posted by shane @ 11/15/2002 05:39 PM PST

Admittedly I am not entirely versed in American politics and, being Canadian, American history hasn't been a major concern for me, but I would like to address some of the things said here.

"Saddam Hussein is the new Adolf Hitler. He not only kills whoever he sees fit but he also kills anyone who dares to rise against him."
The various American governments throughout the years have been known to kill indiscriminately themselves. They have 'accidentally' bombed schools and hospitals, and in the last little while Bush has personally commanded people to not speak out against him, including getting mad at Chretien for saying that the wealthier countries (Canada included) need to take a look at what they're doing, rather than just pointing fingers.

"Not only does Saddam have to go but so do his sons."
Do the sins of the sons really pass onto the father? Is it right to kill people who have yet to do any harm themselves? Should they be killed because of who their father was?

"We are only going to war, with the rest of the world with us"
Not all countries are going to war with the US, and some of those who are joining in are doing so simply out of fear. The US is powerful, a very obvious fact, and Bush is using that fact to influence countries into joining with him and his gov't.

"All your "think of the children" crap has nothing to do with the simple fact that Saddam Hussein is evil. Just like Hitler."
You're right, there is no parallel between the two ideas. The idea, however, that Hussein is evil seems rather misguided. Evil is just a term people give to things that they don't like. Hussein has a very strict moral code that he believes in and follows, one of his morals just happens to include not bowing down to pressure from greater powers. Now, I am in no way a supporter of Hussein, or his actions, but the idea of forcing him, his government and his country to conform to the US's ways and beliefs goes against it's beliefs of democracy, civil liberties and the very moral structure that the US is said to be built on. In forcing other countries to conform to democracy it ceases to be democracy, but is rather tyranny of the masses.

Unfortunately I have no solution to this, I tend to be pessimistic about the whole situation and indeed about humanity in general. I do not, however believe that unconditional investigations, bombings and all out war are going to be the best solutions.

"man is born free and everywhere in chains." - Rousseau

Posted by B_Evil @ 11/15/2002 05:26 PM PST

There is something else someone touched on and no one else is really looking at. Bush in his infinate glory will talk and talk about chemical weapons and biological weapons etc..that saddam has...yes...uuu duh he does have them....give me one country in the middle east that doesnt...hell even the USA has them...yet you dont see other countries asking the gun toting slack jawed dumbass americans to " stand down and get rid of your weapons" oh hell no of course not...for one thing....saddamm has been pretty godamm quiet since the flippin gulf war,...2nd....who the fuck knows how many godamm weapons he has or what the fuck his launching capabilities are....3rd...we wouldnt even be fucking discussing this if Bushs Daddy finished the fucken job in the first place....bush knows he most likely wont get relected because hes put the country in a HUGE debt...and he knows the US hates saddamm.....so...bomb the fucker and get relected...in all honesty...if the us goes with full prempted strike against sadamm...lets all get the last rites because this war will be WW3 and its gonna go nuclear...kiss your asses gbye....i mean dont get me wrong i want saddam..the stupid ass mo fo out and killed more than anyone....but dont fucken call a fucked war because your an idiot...why not send a specialized team in....and assasinate the mo fo. think about it...less lives gone.....no war and THE FUCKER WILL BE GONE!!!!!

Posted by Dont Bomb Me @ 11/15/2002 04:48 PM PST

Bush and the USA are still fooling us...

Just read this...

http://9-11congress.netfirms.com/Vidal.html

Posted by kefz @ 11/15/2002 04:30 PM PST

All this talk is pointless, no matter how many enimas like myself there are, The world will remain a dirty asshole till existance reclaims our stupidity. People are stupid animals, when they feel violated, they want to do something to make themselves feel secure. Thats what it all boils down to.

Posted by Jon Bon Jesus @ 11/15/2002 04:17 PM PST

i can't believe some of you, yeah lets blow up the world cause america is big well guess what ur precious US of A will go down too, i'm from england and all you peace hating nuke fondlinmg freaks (all you who support seans statement rock on) can go shove it!

Posted by jack @ 11/15/2002 04:01 PM PST

I think people need to get some common sense on this one...i respect penn for commenting on this, but lets get real, he is very distant from the frontline of this issue. the reason he had to pay so much is prob. because the paper prints educated articles from individuals who actually know what is going on. War sucks, but we can't get rid of it. There will always be someone out there who hates us and we have to deal with that. And it is a fact that saddam must be removed. the facts are not part of this elaborate fantasy. Saddam's regime is something that must be taken down. And as far as Bush infringing on civil rights, i would ask penn if he would enjoy being on a plane with a bomb-toting terroist that just happened to slip through security. We are assholes because we have no other choice but to be assholes. there is no more time to stand down and try to play a different set of cards when our opponents have given us no other options. I think this country is strong enough to bear hard times. And i also think that if sean penn wants to write intelligently on something, he should probably seek a degree or do something that makes him a bit more aware of writing and leadership. Bush has fucked up and i will be the first to admit it, but along the lines of our problems with the middle east and neighboring countries, i think we have just the right team leading us.

Posted by bleeeeerrrr22 @ 11/15/2002 03:59 PM PST

Vice President of Iraq Taha Yassin Ramadan challenged George Bush and Dick Cheney to a double duel aginst Saddam Hussein and an unnamed Iraqi Vice President. He said "a president against a president, a vice president against a vice president and a duel takes place, if the are serious [about ousting Saddam], and in this way we are saving the American and Iraqi people." Who is the ruthless militaristic tyrant now? Saddam proposes an idea that would accomplish exactly what George Bush wants to accomplish, but it wouldnt result in the deaths of thousands (or millions) of people. Honestly, i dont think the world will miss George Bush or Saddam Hussein. Of course, Bush declined this proposition, showing that he would rather send thousands of his own people (that i thought he was protecting in this war) into battle into certain death, rather than doing his own dirty work on his own instead of making us suffer and die for a cause purely designed to further line his loaded pockets with cash.

Posted by K @ 11/15/2002 03:51 PM PST

i expect that from a canadian.

Posted by stupic canadian @ 11/15/2002 03:32 PM PST

what a dumbass in a half shell, stupid hollywood fucking communist

Posted by fuck sean penn @ 11/15/2002 03:26 PM PST

(Keep in mind that I did not read through all the comments, and that this post is written purely based on the above letter. Thanks in advance.)

As a Canadian, I fully support Sean's letter to the word. I would have understood if the US was pursuing bin Laden and "those guys" (I was too lazy to look up the name of that terrorist faction, they're not worth the effort anyway), but he's lost focus. He's like a shotgun with scatter shells - aim one direction and branch off in many others.

Patroitism is good. But please, use your brains, people. What exactly is the President of the United States doing right now? Is he really doing what's good for people and country or just abusing his powers, and your minds, in a vengence schedule just a little too much?

I'm not saying back off from bin Laden. I'm saying focus. If this keeps up I see the terrorists as the winner for they have accomplished their goal; sow seeds of terror within a nation.

Posted by TerraHawk @ 11/15/2002 02:49 PM PST

The english were conquerers
I am english
Time changes

We controlled India
We controlled America
We controlled Australia

What did we do ?
We gave it all away
Why ?
We went soft
Do I care ?
Hell no

Posted by Shadowdragon @ 11/15/2002 01:20 PM PST

Speaking as a european, i am worried. But not about Saddam, brutal dictator that he is, about Bush and gung-ho americans who seem to agree with Saddam that might is right. There are many countries with weapons of mass destruction and i'm sure the US has more than it's share. I don't see Bush talking tough to China about it's human rights violations and the disgaceful invasion of peaceful Tibet 20/30 years ago. Tibet, a country that had less murders a year than New York has in a day! Unfortunately for Tibet though, it doesn't have vast resources of oil which i think sheds a little light on the subject. As for war on terrorism, Israel has been in breech of UN resolutions for as long as i can remember, occupying Palestinian land illegally and routinely sending in tanks and F15's against rock throwing teenagers. Oh and Israel has the bomb as well, one of the world's worst kept secrets.

Don't get me wrong, something will have to be done about Saddam sooner or later and sooner could be less painful in the long run. He is one of the world's richest individuals whilst the vast majority of his people live in abject poverty.

But the US should be very wary of throwing it's weight around as it has done in Nicaragua and Chile and Panama and Grenada (talk about sledgehammers to crack nuts). The most prosperous nation on earth should be doing far more to help third world countries thus building respect and goodwill and reducing the threat of terrorism.

Sean is right to be a concerned father but arse-licking Bush won't help.

Posted by loorolls @ 11/15/2002 01:15 PM PST

I just posted a new article about civil liberties and everything, check that out.

As for Saddam and nukes and all that, even if he did have something, he wouldn't be able to hit the US with it. Israel is probably the most at risk. But as far as him giving it to Al Qaeda and them doing something with it, come on! That guy is WAY to powr hungry to get a weapon like that and then give it away. Does anyone REALLY believe that? Please.

Posted by seanbonner @ 11/15/2002 12:57 PM PST

who is Sean Penn?

Posted by Josh Steele @ 11/15/2002 12:57 PM PST

borg 300 fuc you up your ass backwards mofo ass lickin bitch

Posted by eat me @ 11/15/2002 12:33 PM PST

suc my dick

now

Posted by eat me @ 11/15/2002 12:31 PM PST

I agree with u on the civil liberties. But not on the no war with Iraq. Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, he knows how to use them. he is close to getting a nuke. he has vilolated over 10 UN resolutions for him to disarm, so he cant use those terrible weapons agaisnt ppl, but he has refused. If we do not force him to disarm, he will keep those weapons and use them again, maybe even against civiilians in the US. Once he gets a nuke he will use it. That is y we must go to war if he doesnt allow uncondintional inspections. If we dont force him to disarm, a US city might get nuked or Israel or some other country.
Look at images of nukes going off in tests, and look at pictures of Hiroshama and Nagasaki. That is what a US city or another city will look like if we do not force Saddam to disarm and stop his nuclear weapons prgram.

Posted by BORG300 @ 11/15/2002 11:54 AM PST

I don't know how much of a canadian opinion will impact readers but the last time bush talked about us, it was real weak.

Recently, he had one of his lackeys address us on how we should go with them to Iraq and kill people there but it sounded like a threat rather than a plea or supposition (i think that's the word, im not that smart).
Then, he had to get another lackey to rearrange the words so it sounded better because there were a lot of canadians who frowned at the remarks of the previous addressing.

Personally, i think bush can go hide in a bush and stay there. He's done nothing for me and nothing for my country. He has givin Kyoto the finger, waved bye bye to our environmental needs (for a big one, look up on BC forests under joint control) and bombed 4 of our men. Heh, like that Mr T animation on Newgrounds.com said, if Colin Powell ran for president, they wouldn't have needed a recount.

Posted by w00x @ 11/15/2002 11:40 AM PST

Nice to see American people don't agree with Bush. The media in Hollan does not pay much attention at the critics towards Bush...

Posted by Turdicus @ 11/15/2002 11:25 AM PST

Rob - "The world" as you put it did not actually stand back and allow hitler to rise to power. Simply because the US was not involved in WWII does not necessarily mean that other countries were not fighting (admittedly it took Winston Churchill to realise the threat and take action) But many countries including my own Australia were involved long before the US decided to "win the war for us" Not that Im ungrateful for that but I digress.
I would however ask one question - Has ANYONE heard GW make a speach in the last lets say 6 months that has mentioned ANYTHING but the "war on terra" as he puts it and Saddam's "nucular" capabilities. The man turned a visit to the fire fighters in California into a rally against terror - what the hell does that have to do with peoples homes burning down?

Posted by Tony @ 11/15/2002 10:47 AM PST

I have to say that this was a very well-written letter. I feel that Sean Penn made some very good points that both the people and the government should examine more closely.

Posted by Jerrod Kinyon @ 11/15/2002 10:41 AM PST

ive been reading a lot about this stupid war and ive quickly changed sides to against. Mr. Penn is a highly intelegent man, Mr. Bush is too, he just has to realize what hes doing. This war isnt our war. Those third would countries are very envious of us, and if we attack back thats not gonna make them lose there envy. The war is wrong, and helping them isnt working, and personally i dont think the oil companies give a rats two shits about what saddam says. I could be talking bullshit right now and sound nieve but its what i think. WE need to learn how to keep our hands to ourselves.

Posted by JeBuS @ 11/15/2002 10:13 AM PST

Sean Penn has great ideas and support for his ideas. I paticuraly admired the mentioning of the cuban missle crisis and how it was handled. Yes he is right war should be avoided at all costs. If in the absolute end war is necessary then so be it. Bu then who is to judge when it is? I read some replies to this where Bush was bashed and his followers trashed. Why? You may believe that or you may just be spitting rhetoric yourselfs...as Bush may be spitting...but does it accomplish anything? Look at what Sean Penn does in his letter...he hints and blantantly tells Bush he could be a great president..the greatest..or he could be remembered as a horrific one....appealing to Bush's sense of grandeur that we all have. Bush is no superhuman no better than most of us. He does not desevere to be slandered so in an ignorant fashion. I believe Mr Penn to be right in his CRITCIZM of Mr. Bush but thats what it is. Mature criticizm and validated at that. Please, dont slander but think, analyze and come out with an actual intelligent response. Mr. Bush does need to think throughly about this....i would assume he is...this is a huge event and problem in the world and up till now he has performed well under all the pressure where would we be if Bush was in office? An he may be trying to finish what his Dad never accomplished...but only b/c Bush Senior couldnt complete them b/c Clinton was in office....thus the problems were still there...and clinton never addressed them. He rode on the cloud of economic success which Regean had most to do with and the benfits were now coming into effect. This reppression is a product of Clinton's administration...BUsh could not have caused he was in office long enough to have started it. So I am a ardent supporter of Bush...yet i do not see him as supreme. HE is far from it. He needs to think things through know that a life is a life we are all human. Yet at the sametime i read some of these replys and say who are the sheep? Do you belive that just b/c you dont follow mainstream thought blindly but follow somone else who does not is the mandate for being a freethinker? Just b/c you choose to alienate yourself from the norm does not make you a leader. Now there are leader's who do not follow mainstream thought...there are leaders in mainstream thought as well. And there are stupid sheep in all realms. You are a sheep if you blindly go along with your ideas that have been built up by others. Question everything that is handed to you until you BELIVE IT, goverment, anarchist thoughts, politics, religon, anything and all. But then again I suppose we need the sheep dont we...-16 yr old senior in Jacksonville Fl

Posted by Devin Alvarez @ 11/15/2002 08:28 AM PST

If bush wants so much to go to war, why not send him alone with a gun and a "good luck" card?

Note: Fuck all you blind patriots

Posted by Dawgy @ 11/15/2002 08:09 AM PST

Go sean penn, bout time someone stood up for themselves and us. George Bush is a puppet. He know nothing.
Anyone who supports George Bush is obviosuly stupid or just jumping on the bandwagon.

Posted by spike @ 11/15/2002 04:57 AM PST

Go beaver! How can it be so obvious to those who don't even live here while the citizens of this country can't see it. We're in a depression. Now, Bush may not have caused it but he ain't doin shit to fix it. Well, I should take that back. He is, after all, making certain that the word "depression" never get's used. Our government is great at generating placebo effects. As long as Bush and the rest of the politicians have "terror" to fall back on, they feel secure in their incumbancies. And when a politician feels secure in his or her incumbancy a whole lot of NOTHING gets done. The republicans are happy as shit - they've finally got an excuse to build the Big Brother system they've always dreamed of; and the democrats? The democrats have been fairly worthless since the last political realignment. They're the lesser of two evils if only because they don't have the money or motive the republicans do to really change anything.

American's need to realize that Rome fell, and that the sun now set's regularly on the British empire. If we don't change, the change will come externally.

Goddamn we need a movement.

-
January 9th, 2005 - Alignment
WORLD WAR III - 2006:
Arab-Isreal Conflict w/ Nuclear Results.
Russian-Moslem Alliance.
Eastern Origin WWIII- Libyan fleet
-
(Posting from within the Asylum)

Posted by roy @ 11/15/2002 01:48 AM PST

Mr. Bush is trying to accomplish what his father has not been able to, and that is to get the iraqui oil resources. It seems that he really does not care about the people of America, and neither does he for any people of the world. He is willing to risk anybodies life in order to get what he wants. It is not a wise thing to attack Iraq, the russinas feel unconfortable and god knows what kind of weaponary the russians have, as u can see, a lot of russians are hungry, and why, its because the government spends all the money in various research. All this could lead to another WW, and I'm sure none of us wants that.
One thing i really can not understand, since I'm from Canada, why did u guys elect that freak, he is costing u ur freedom, and it seems to me that the people of America don't really have a say to what is going to hapen to that country, and if u wanted to u probably would be beaten by the cops and jailed. Is that ur Democracy? I have escaped out of a war, and i have seen the brains of my collegues getting blown out. Is that what u guys wanna see, well i can assure u, that u will, if u go on and keep suporting Mr. J.W. Bush, a war is inevitable if that guy stays on power, and belive me, the whole world is mad at ya guys.

Sean Rules, U go Buddy

Peace

Posted by beaver @ 11/15/2002 12:32 AM PST

ILLUMINATI - Bush is a little too close to the energy industry to be deciding whether or not to attack a major oil competitor of he and his fathers. Further, war is not necessary. Simply hire the French Foreign Legion to assisinate Saddam and his son's. Problem solved and solved by an organization with the balls to get it done. By the by, America is nolonger the greatest country in the world. We could be, but we would actually have to TRY.

Posted by roy @ 11/14/2002 10:26 PM PST

What Sean Penn and so many other liberals don't recognize is that Saddam Hussein is the new Adolf Hitler. He not only kills whoever he sees fit but he also kills anyone who dares to rise against him. Someone should remind Mr. Penn that there were women in Iraq who were decapitated and their heads were thrown into the trash for disagreeing with him! We're dealing with a man who had his kids watching executions while they were growing up like most kids watch cartoons. Not only does Saddam have to go but so do his sons.

Posted by Steve96 @ 11/14/2002 10:05 PM PST

I am a 17 year old boy in H.S. and ive read all of these comments. I see many different views on the matter of Bush and going to war with Iraq. Me and my classmates have talked about this issue in our history classes and we dont really know what would be the right path for America to take. My personal opinion is, if we go to war i will fight for my country. All I hope is that it is the right thing to do and for a good cause, Bush says he wants to end terrorisim and we go into Afaginistan to stop Osama but did we get him? I dont belive acts of terrorisim will ever end. If we are fighting to end terrorisim and countries that aren't democratic and posess nukes. Then what about Korea will I have to go to war there like my grandfather before me in the Korean Conflict. I don't know what is to come but whatever it may be I hope ill be able to look back upon all of this and be able to say America made the right decision.

Posted by Paul @ 11/14/2002 09:43 PM PST

Nothing wrong with war, it's a just a form of controlled violence. brings down the population just a little bit. shows heathens who not to fuck with.

and fuck the Bush's! George Bush made this mess during his administration, paid bin laden to take care of the russians and when the funding stopped, who did he come after...the dog bites the hand that feeds it. i say bomb all those towelheads

Posted by Kienan @ 11/14/2002 09:34 PM PST

and Chris Scott, pull the wool from your eyes and take a position of neutrality on topics like this. if you start out saying something like "emotional drivel" you are going to end saying it no matter what is written. There is truth in his words. If we had gone to war with Iraq, do you really think we'd be able to afford it? About what sacrifices we'd have to make? We don't go to war as an army, we go to war as a people, think about it.

Posted by Kingoftheblind @ 11/14/2002 09:30 PM PST

woogy, you are a moron. that simple. Don't bother asking me why, because if you don't know why then you already know you're a fool.

The truth is the United States has a history of butting into business that isn't theirs. Remember Vietnam? George W. claims that that is exactly what he is trying to avoid, and yet he is doing the opposite. If some grave injustice was being done that no one else was paying attention to, I might understand, but we're pretending like we're the almighty superhero of the world while the U.N. actually tries to do something. If W knew when to shut his mouth and stop poking the embers of war, then maybe he wouldn't have to spend so god damn much on his homeland security budget and he could spend more on education. As a student, this effects me personally.

Posted by KingoftheBlind @ 11/14/2002 09:18 PM PST

To state it bluntly I agree wholeheartedly with Sean's analysis-this war is so much more about money and the politicking that Bush is up to. He has no clear plans on IMPORTANT issues, ie healthcare, education, economy....so let's blow up a weak fifth-rate military country. Iraq has a shoddy military force, it's such a joke. In Desert Storm they surrendered to cameramen, for christ's sake. We're not threatening India and Pakistan are we? Both have nukes, and Pakistan is not a democracy. North Korea has nukes, but we can't threaten them either because of their position in trade with Japan and South Korea. What a bunch of tails wagging the dog-and the media just makes it worse.

And for Chris Scott-Bush IS a cheating dumbass, not just a dumbass. If you don't know, Yale and Harvard (and other Ivy League schools) have this crappy incestuous legacy policy. Since Bush Senior went to Ivies, his son gets a free seat. (Plus, his family is filthy ass rich). He got an MBA, not even a JD (law degree) like most politicians and almost every president has had. He admits he slept through class, but when your father builds new wings onto the school let me see how soon you freakin' fail out. Politics and money, pure and simple. As a side note, Bush Jr applied to Texas A&M law school, which doesn't have a legacy policy-and they rejected his sorry ass , even though his Daddy was a politician because they run on a merit admissions policy unlike the Ivies.

Posted by MSM @ 11/14/2002 09:02 PM PST

OK first u say bush is da bomb then u say hes wrong?
WTF is that all about?Anywayz
I think bush is the best becuase he
is a really smart preisident.you all know sadam whosain aint so bright so Y argue??Well I think sean peenn is one of the most horribilest actors he ranks up their with kevin costner all all of them.And since i have an IQ of 95 my words cum with great weight.
Listen to me!sadam whosain Im GOING TO KILL YOU BITCH ASS IM GOing to slap your gace and throw ur ass into a bonefire!!!!!!!!

Posted by THe smart one @ 11/14/2002 08:59 PM PST

Why are you all afraid of war?
Death is only natural to you mortals. In time this planet will not be able to support your growing populace. The only way to survive as a species is to do what humans do best.

Destroy yourselves.

Posted by 1900 @ 11/14/2002 08:49 PM PST

"w00gy. Please. You have no facts and have not researched anything. We did not BACK Iraq in it's invasion of Kuwait. We did not sell Iraq AK-47s, T-72 tanks, RPG-7s and MIGs or any other outdated military hardware. Those items were manufactured and sold by the former members of the Warsaw pact (Soviets & allies during cold war). Do some real research."
I have infact researched many things. While we may not have sold ak47s and rpgs or migs, we did back them all the way with their biochemical weapons and other weapons of mass destruction. ESPESIALLY Bush senior. also he continued the support RIGHT UP TO the point were he lied about the buildup along the kuwait-iraq border. Then when he could have wiped out saddham (however its spelled)he stopped. Also he lied to U.S. soldiers about their weapons and the toxicity of the uranium bullets they used. This has caused the deaths of 9,200 odd veterans (this is not something im makeing up these are figures that have been researched and thought through). Also, the sanctions on iraq are whats killing the iraqi children not saddham. Saddham could maybe help a bit with the starvation, but the U.S. is withholding all medications even. Thus babys are dieing of diahria that could easily be cured with a minimal amount of aid on the part of the U.S. if they would just lift the sanctions. There is NO reason to withhold the anti biotics needed to cure diaria. NONE. and yet this is what the U.S. is doing. Also bombing iraq again will not help the U.S.'s cause but hinder it by causing even more anti U.S. fealing. This is now my second post in this thread and I would like to point out that i have NOT resorted to "name calling" as has been suggested by other posters.

Posted by w00gy @ 11/14/2002 08:37 PM PST

OK all you Americans, listen up. Most of you seem to be agreeing with Sean, and thats good. He's totally right here. And then some of you seem to be siding with Bush. That's not so right. I'm going to take a look at some of the more inane things posted here.
1. "We are only going to war, with the rest of the world with us, if Iraq fails to meet the terms of the UN resolution." By Wade Fulp
This would be why there have been peace marches, involving millions of people, in Canada and Europe. The only country following the States right now is the UK. All others have declined the honor of following Bush
2. "Besides the U.S. only wants Inspections and mass destruction weapons destroyed. Is that so much to ask?" By Reality
So does this mean that American will destroy all of its nuclear warheads? Is that so much to ask?
3. "Look at the good that has happened in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban. We are helping them build farms and get educations, etc." By Sigh
And yet 99% of Aid money promised to Afghanistan has yet to arrive. Most of it from the States. Who also has a multi-billion dollar debt to the UN
4. "If Hussein is not eliminated, Iraq is screwed." By Rob
Actually, I think what you were trying to say is that if the US impsoed embargoes on Iraq arn't lifted, then it is screwed.
5. "If we just let Iraq and other countries have their way, then we all know what can happen by learning from Sept. 11" By Barry (learn to type Barry)
And yet all the US-sponsored assasinations of democratically elected socialist (which does NOT mean communist or soviet) presidents in Latin American are fine?
6. "Somebody has to stand up while the rest of the world is complacent." By Mo
Maybe the rest of the world is complacent because there is no danger. Even if Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, he has no way to get them to the States. So the Middle East and Europe would be the targets. Yet they don't seem that concerned.

Finally, just a couple of points. Of the guys who flew the planes, NONE of them came through Canada. Bush wants oil. And the War on Terror is barely above being declared a failure.

Posted by Canada Man @ 11/14/2002 08:23 PM PST

P.S. For all of you people that blame bush for the economy, here are a couple of facts

1) The economy began to decline before the 2000 election that elected bush. The government had nothing to do with it, it was caused by the bursting of the tech bubble

2) There is actually very little a government can do to affect the economy (anybody who has real knowledge of the economy knows this).

3) Corporate wrongdoings were around before bush (yes during Clintons presidency) it just came out during bush's presidency, and again the government can do little to prevent this, just prosecute in the aftermath.

4) the Federal reserve board, the organization that has the most control over the economy, is mostly privately owned, thats right around 90%, so there is very little the government can do here

The fact is that you really can't blame our government for any economical conditions, since the economy is mostly influenced over the long term, things that happen over many years

Posted by Chris Scott @ 11/14/2002 07:58 PM PST

First of all, for all of you people that call bush stupid better get it right. how could the man have graduated from Yale Universtiy (an ivy league school) if he was stupid. Just because you think he is wrong does not make him stupid, you show your ignorance and immaturaty (stupidity as well) when you do this, this also applies to those that insult Mr. Penn in the same fashion.

Also i see people throwing around alot of mistruths. I unfortunaltely have come to realisation that many people do not know what they are talking about, and i agree with Alexander Hamilton about his views of the people (Hamilton for all of you who don't know though that common people cannot be trusted with descisions on politics, because they were stupid, so basically he thought that control should rest with the educated land holding class).

I say bravo to Mr. Penn, he understands both sides of the issue, unlike many of you who either dismiss the other side or don't know about it, discusses the issue in a civilized manner, understanding all parts of the argument, and does not resort to personal attacks or other forms of negative politics.

Also to all of you, i agree with Mr. Bush, i think we need to take action, not only in Iraq, but in other areas of the world. but also think that we should be wary of war.

Thank you Mr. Penn for debating the issue, free of any spin or political double talk, I wish I could debate the issue with you in a better setting for all of our benefit

Posted by Chirs Scott @ 11/14/2002 07:48 PM PST

Mindless emotional drivel. Sean, I can't believe you wasted $56,000 to have that crap posted in the WP. Nobody in his right mind can agree with what you say. The world stood back and did nothing back in the 30's as Hitler rose to power, destroying one person after another in his way. Guess what that led to? World War II. If Hussein is not eliminated, Iraq is screwed. It's that simple. All your "think of the children" crap has nothing to do with the simple fact that Saddam Hussein is evil. Just like Hitler. Why didn't we get rid of Hitler while we had the chance? Because of dumbshits like Sean here. Oh yeah, and republicans don't demonize liberals. You guys demonize yourselves. ;) Just wanted to clear that up.

Posted by Rob @ 11/14/2002 07:44 PM PST

Mindless emotional drivel. Sean, I can't believe you wasted $56,000 to have that crap posted in the WP. Nobody in his right mind can agree with what you say. The world stood back and did nothing back in the 30's as Hitler rose to power, destroying one person after another in his way. Guess what that led to? World War II. If Hussein is not eliminated, Iraq is screwed. It's that simple. All your "think of the children" crap has nothing to do with the simple fact that Saddam Hussein is evil. Just like Hitler. Why didn't we get rid of Hitler while we had the chance? Because of dumbshits like Sean here. Oh yeah, and republicans don't demonize liberals. You guys demonize yourselves. ;) Just wanted to clear that up.

Posted by Rob @ 11/14/2002 07:43 PM PST

Way to go, Sean. I always had him figured for a Republican. Maybe he is. Maybe that's how he managed to be so graceful as he points out the president's misguided actions. Seriously. We are losing civil liberties at an accellerated rate, with no real evidence of improved security. I hope I'm wrong, but I am getting the impression that this whole event is being used to advance the Republican agenda. And about our our environment: (conservatives grit their teeth...) have we seen any action? Did the tax break help the economy? Are we less dependant on foreign oil after drilling for coal? Clinton was being investigated every day of his presidential career. Why is Bush immune to questioning?

Posted by Baldhunk @ 11/14/2002 07:29 PM PST

I believe what Sean Penn said is very true. George Bush is a threat to everyone, and if he doesn't stop what he has set into motion then he may very well bring upon us a World War III

Posted by Dustin @ 11/14/2002 07:29 PM PST

liberals think money can fix anything and they dont relize its our money were spending. another thing if we just let iraq and other countrys have there way then we all know what can happen by learning from sept 11. except next time maybe it will be worse and who knows maybe it will be your family thats affected.

Posted by barry @ 11/14/2002 07:27 PM PST

I'm sick of republicans! They're all so evil! All the do is demonize Liberals!

Posted by Uber-Liberal @ 11/14/2002 07:13 PM PST

Yea fuckin' right we're commies!!! What are you gonna do bitch?

Posted by Karsten @ 11/14/2002 06:48 PM PST

Bush is about as militant as a cricus clown. He used to own a baseball team for Christ's sake. He was in the Air National Guard. Whooooopeee. Who saved your sorry French asses from German Occupation in WW2 Valleau? The U.S. did. So go shove a beret up your ungrateful ass. Somebody has to stand up while the rest of the world is complacent.

Posted by Mo @ 11/14/2002 06:47 PM PST

Good for Sean Penn. whats the point of bombing Iraq? Its just going to add to all the pointless suffering in the world. If we attack Iraq, it will just further the beleif in other countries that America is a war mongering tyrant of the world, which i am sad to say is partally true

Posted by izzy @ 11/14/2002 06:46 PM PST

Fuck America. Bush is a trigger happy son of a bitch who is only a puppet of his father. The whole fucking country is being run by a simplistic militant who is only trying to do his fathers unfinished business. Fuck America, Fuck you up your stupid asses.

Posted by Layne Valleau @ 11/14/2002 06:40 PM PST

w00gy. Please. You have no facts and have not researched anything. We did not BACK Iraq in it's invasion of Kuwait. We did not sell Iraq AK-47s, T-72 tanks, RPG-7s and MIGs or any other outdated military hardware. Those items were manufactured and sold by the former members of the Warsaw pact (Soviets & allies during cold war). Do some real research.

Posted by Reality @ 11/14/2002 06:36 PM PST

Sean Penn is an idiot and Saddam must go for the good of the world. Getting rid of Saddam would HELP Iraq's children, not hurt them. Why Do people think this is a war on the people of Iraq. Look at the good that has happened in Afghanistan after the fall of the Taliban. We are helping them build farms and get educations, etc. The same can be done for Iraq. Also...do you think those who hate America will just decide to stop hating us if we all of a sudden mind our own business? The problem, whether we created it or not, must be dealt with now.

Posted by Sigh @ 11/14/2002 06:30 PM PST

In responce to Posted by Xenoknight5 post.

Just because He challenged the establishment does NOT make him right. I would like to hear some of your solutions to magically fixing these problems. Just becuase you don't like the president doesn't mean the President of our United States stupid. It proves that you really don't have a case against him and you must resort to name calling. Anyways, I am behind the president in his views. If you have a problem with that email me and tell me, please don't resort to the usual tactics of name calling though.

Sincerely
lm_mario

Posted by lm_mario @ 11/14/2002 06:15 PM PST

All i have to say is that history repeats itself, and if BUsh goes to war with Iraq, we have yet another task to accomplish. Fighting the war in Afghanistan is one thing, but fighting with Iraq is something else. Damn, whos next, Syria, or North Korea? Eventually, we will be at war with everyone and that will be something terrible to witness. Bush has always favored war. Isnt that what everyone wanted when they voted for him?? I guess so. also, good for sean. I never knew those movie stars had any brains whatso ever.

Posted by Paul @ 11/14/2002 06:12 PM PST

all this prooves is that most people do NOT know what they are talking about. The same 70% that approves of Bush right now are the ones who have no idea thatwe sold arms to Iraq when they were fighting with Iran, or that the Weapons Inspectors were not KICKED out, but pulled out by the UN, and then not let back in by Iraq after we bombed them. If people did their research and homework in general we'd be in a much better place. Unfortunately most people just hear the news today and base their opinions on that, rather than actual fact.

Posted by sean @ 11/14/2002 05:49 PM PST

I found this letter to be really well written and i agree with most if not all of it. Also all you people especially whoever said "Why don't all you weeping humanitarians go fuck-u-selves" really need to wake up and READ and go to events on both sides before you say things like that because (i hope at least) your makeing an uninformed decision and should really think before you act. If you have gone to events and listend to non government speaches and researched facts (like i have) then i would hope that you would have sense to see that while saddahm is a very bad person the us isnt so peachy either and that the sanctions imposed on iraq are very VERY hurtfull to iraqs people and also (if you believe bush) are not helping to stop the production of nuclear weapons. Also the U.S. government has a very long history of lieing to the U.S. and the rest of the world. Therefore judgeing by track record (especially in the middle east) i wouldnt trust any U.S. president to tell me anyhthing true. Also for you "he's gonna invade Kuwait again" people the U.S. BACKED him in doing that by selling him any weapons he wanted and not just to saddahm to anyone who wanted them. So just think about what your saying when you say it.

Posted by w00gy @ 11/14/2002 05:41 PM PST

I saw complaints that Sean penn seemed to be too nice to our idiot mock-up of a president, thats probably because he isn't a complete IDIOT himself. He knew damn well he couldn't just send some hate mail to Bush, he was trying to get something done.

And he was right about the economy, Bush has fucked us over. I miss Clinton, who cares if he was gettin some, at least he knew how to run a country, something Bush has yet to grasp.

Posted by Slash @ 11/14/2002 05:32 PM PST

Its me again sorry for postin all those comments before my computer is so god dam slow its like shit.
and to tell the truth though amreica is fucked!!!

Posted by BrenMan @ 11/14/2002 05:32 PM PST

This guy talks about the states the states, but he should be talking about the planet, we as a people, a race, it's people like sean penn who makes us look like we're above everybody... yes his intentions were good, but he creates a certain boundry that says only the americans can do something, it's stuff like this that seperates our race.... we need to come together as a race, not as individual countrys thinking we're completely different

Posted by J-D @ 11/14/2002 05:28 PM PST

Either way.
America is fucked.
The world is fucked.
Humanity is fucked.
All thanks to nothing.

Posted by Ant @ 11/14/2002 05:23 PM PST

Sean Penn is an idiot. The United States has been playing the diplomacy and inspection game since 1991. That is 12 years for diplomacy and 6 for inspection( 1997 Iraq gave inspectors the boot). Not to mention the U.S. ended the Gulf War by not going all the way to Baghdad; showing restraint. Enough is enough. Besides the U.S. only wants Inspections and mass destruction weapons destroyed. Is that so much to ask? What happens if we do nothing and Iraq gets nukes and decides to invade Kuwait once again and threatens to use nukes if anyone attempts to take it back. Complacency is not the answer this time around. Penn should stick to simpler matters like portraying mongoloids on the big screen.

Posted by Reality @ 11/14/2002 05:20 PM PST

Good for Sean, paying someone to write a letter for him and paying to have it printed in the Post. Now if only GeeDub can pay someone to read it to him and explain what the big words mean..... Less than 2 years left to put up with the inbred moron texan who paid to steal the white house.

Posted by Just Kill All Republicans @ 11/14/2002 05:16 PM PST

Why don't all you weeping humanitarians go fuck-u-selves, If it weren't for you tree-huggers we wouldnt have allowed any of these hitler wanna-bees come into any kind of power in the first place. You need to rememberwhat your fathers and brothers were fighting for when you weren't even liberals! By the way eat a manatee they're scrumpdillyishus!!!!!!!!!

Posted by TankMcLanahan @ 11/14/2002 05:15 PM PST

Yo people,
I dont really follow politics, but i could understand that. So I would to say Sean YOU KICK ASS!

Posted by BrenMan @ 11/14/2002 05:12 PM PST

Yo people,
I dont really follow politics, but i could understand that. So I would to say Sean YOU KICK ASS!

Posted by BrenMan @ 11/14/2002 05:12 PM PST

Yo people,
I dont really follow politics, but i could understand that. So I would to say Sean YOU KICK ASS!

Posted by BrenMan @ 11/14/2002 05:11 PM PST

bush should just fuckin go to war with them, seriously...americans these days are pussies. IF there was a war, id definately go. -Ed

Posted by Ed Harrington @ 11/14/2002 05:09 PM PST

"Simply put, sir, let us re-introduce inspection teams, inhibiting offensive capability. We buy time, maintain our principles here and abroad and demand of ourselves the ingenuity to be the strongest diplomatic muscle on the planet, perhaps in the history of the planet. The answers will come. You are a man of faith, but your saber is rattling the faith of many Americans in you."

That's exactly what Bush is doing! Sean Penn is a fucking idiot. Bush isn't going to war with Iraq. We are only going to war, with the rest of the world with us, if Iraq fails to meet the terms of the UN resolution. Iraq was supposed to meet these terms over the past 11 years, but failed. Now Bush is stepping in and saying "No more fooling around. You must meet the terms of the resolution, or we will disarm you with force!" This is something that should have been done when the inspectors were kicked out of Iraq, but the UN had no spine and neither did Clinton.

Posted by Wade Fulp @ 11/14/2002 05:01 PM PST

Shut up you damn commies!!! BUSH IS THE MAN! HEIL BUSH!!!

Posted by Facist PiGG @ 11/14/2002 04:46 PM PST

He had the right idea - but the whole letter was way too emonitional. He tried to come off as a political activist but he (too me anyway) just came off as some guy who was trying to sound like he knew what he was talking about. Why was he butt kissing to bush? Bush will never be able to "do good".

Bush cant do anything with out first checking with a gov't department. He is a public puppet for the real leaders of this country, as are all prisidents. Bush cant wake up one day and say lets bomb iraq "cause there is elections coming up". He is not the real evil - just the visual rep for it.

Sean also should have avoided making guesses at intel on iraq. how the hell does he know how adavanced iraq's weapons program is? It made him sound foolish. Also he is not going to help raise any awarness by saying "Many of your actions to date....violate every defining principle..." He should have given at least some specific examples of events or new laws ect, then people might have go and done further reading about it.

In short this seemed to be more of a publicity stunt and not a pure activist declaration.

Posted by Suap-Fly @ 11/14/2002 04:39 PM PST

That sums up what myself and most people I know think about the whole "war on terrorism" and the subsequent Iraq "situation" think.

As far as I can see, this is yet another excuse to flex he muscle of the largest military force in the world. It's also very ironic to call the political situation in Iraq tyranical when UN politicains threaten them with military force (and lets face it, it's like putting Mike Tyson into the ring with Stephen hawking) if they don't do what they want.

George Bush isn't happy about the possibility of Saddam having nuclear capabilities, well most of the world is pissed that a war-crazed moron (Bush) DOES have control of nuclear weapons.

Posted by Vrenna @ 11/14/2002 04:39 PM PST

"Oh, and I fucked Madonna. You didn't. "

Everyone's fucked Madonna.

Posted by Everyone. @ 11/14/2002 04:39 PM PST

That sums up what myself and most people I know think about the whole "war on terrorism" and the subsequent Iraq "situation" think.

As far as I can see, this is yet another excuse to flex he muscle of the largest military force in the world. It's also very ironic to call the political situation in Iraq tyranical when UN politicains threaten them with military force (and lets face it, it's like putting Mike Tyson into the ring with Stephen hawking) if they don't do what they want.

George Bush isn't happy about the possibility of Saddam having nuclear capabilities, well most of the world is pissed that a war-crazed moron (Bush) DOES have control of nuclear weapons.

Posted by Vrenna @ 11/14/2002 04:37 PM PST

Discarding the fact that he is an actor, Mr. Penn has done the thing that most American citizens ought to be doing: Exercising their right of Free Speech. I personally believe that this country is what it is not because of the people in office, but because of the working class people, and so forth. It is we citizens who make this country such a great place, and when something compromises our ideas/beliefs, it is in our own best interest to state an opinion on the matter. Mr. Penn's voice in the press may have not reached many ears, but if more Americans speak out, surely we can be heard.

Posted by Nick Spencer @ 11/14/2002 04:31 PM PST

Thanks, guys. Us pinkos gotta stick together! Oh, and I fucked Madonna. You didn't.

Posted by Sean Penn @ 11/14/2002 04:04 PM PST

dang nice i hated sean penn but now i think he is hella tight man the president is pretty stupid and this letter is so right GO CLINTON

Posted by NICE @ 11/14/2002 03:59 PM PST

Spicoli is totally rightous

Posted by me @ 11/14/2002 03:57 PM PST

I have no choice but to commend Sean Penn for saying what he has. But, he took too much of a weak root, praising the president's potential to be "good." The fact is, Bush will continue to be an "evildoer"(as he would say...), as well as "a legitimate threat to world peace" (quote from Nelson Mandela). I truly wish he did, but Bush will never sincerely consider Penn's or anyone else's course of action except his agenda to further line his pockets of wealth and further deprive the world and national community of achieving better, more equal wealth. I think as a country, we need to focus much less on the dealings of others, but rather on our own. If we did this much, we would not have guys flying planes into our buildings. It is a crime that this is the richest country in the world, yet there are still 40 million people under the poverty line and that 45 million people are living without health care. Isnt the right to life the truest human right of them all?

Posted by Karsten @ 11/14/2002 03:55 PM PST

It's really refreshing to read something from an intelligent, articulate celbrity. The fact that Mr. Penn paid so much to have his message heard is refreshing, as he didn't use his celebrity as the sole means of being heard. I am so sick of celebrities who are heard(Barbara Streisand, Jane Fonda, Alec Baldwin)and considered "experts" because of their celebrity. With this letter, Mr. Penn has done more for the War opposition effort than any of the leading Democrats in our nation. As to be expected, the media will not give it press, because it does not suit their agenda or create massive controversy and ratings. Everyone who sees this letter should do their part to show it to everyone they know and care about, beacuse much of what Mr. Penn says is true. History shows us the pwer of voice in enacting change in our government. Thank you.

Posted by billybats @ 11/14/2002 03:53 PM PST

I never knew taht someone who ahs been written off for being jsut an actor can have such deep and accurate view about the Bush administration. I totally agree with Sean Penn, and no insult intended. I think Bush is after the oil....and following soem cold blooded vendetta. Good Job Mr. Penn

Posted by Rajiv @ 11/14/2002 03:51 PM PST

A brilliantly written letter. I have just gained new found respect for Sean Penn.

Posted by Inquisitor @ 11/14/2002 03:43 PM PST

Very interesting. This letter has brought many things to my attention, things I did not see before. I salute Sean Penn.

Posted by Xenoknight5 @ 11/14/2002 03:39 PM PST

Way to go Mr. Penn. You have risin to the task of challenging the establishment. Which may have consequences however I am glad that the unspoken thoughts of those true peacekeepers and true Americans have been communicated.

Posted by Crazy Eyes @ 11/14/2002 03:35 PM PST

This is great! He is absolutely right. I hope the president reads this letter and chooses this course of action.

Posted by colby @ 11/14/2002 03:34 PM PST

This is great! He is absolutely right. I hope the president reads this letter and chooses this course of action.

Posted by colby @ 11/14/2002 03:34 PM PST

Wow, I never knew Sean Penn was so politically inclined...he is the man, telling the president how stupid he is without directly insulting him...now, that's a skill I want to have for if I ever meet him. :) GO SEAN!

Posted by Vinren @ 11/14/2002 03:30 PM PST

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